From isolis at igso.net Tue Sep 3 01:03:41 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Sharing files with MAC Message-ID: <20020903080341.GA97788@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Hi folks. I have a housemate who just got a MAC (OS 8.5, PPC 604). What's the best way to share files with the MAC? I have another housemate with an XP box, so we use Samba for that. If Samba is the answer, does anybody know what's the best software for Samba on said MAC? Later, Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020903/3965367c/attachment.pgp From jeremy at nirvani.net Tue Sep 3 01:11:05 2002 From: jeremy at nirvani.net (Jeremy Brand, B.S.) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Sharing files with MAC In-Reply-To: <20020903080341.GA97788@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: > Hi folks. > > I have a housemate who just got a MAC (OS 8.5, PPC 604). What's the best > way to share files with the MAC? I have another housemate with an XP > box, so we use Samba for that. > > If Samba is the answer, does anybody know what's the best software for > Samba on said MAC? > Howdy. You'll want to look into NetAtalk, an ethernet variety of apple talk. Jeremy From che at debian.org Tue Sep 3 10:56:57 2002 From: che at debian.org (Ben Gertzfield) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Sharing files with MAC References: <20020903080341.GA97788@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <3D74F7E9.9020606@debian.org> Ignacio Solis wrote: >Hi folks. > >I have a housemate who just got a MAC (OS 8.5, PPC 604). What's the best >way to share files with the MAC? I have another housemate with an XP >box, so we use Samba for that. > >If Samba is the answer, does anybody know what's the best software for >Samba on said MAC? > Definitely have your housemate try the upgrade to Mac OS X 10.2. It comes with full NFS and Samba support. No configuration necessary. Ben From peterbe at sonic.net Tue Sep 3 13:11:07 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Sharing files with MAC In-Reply-To: <3D74F7E9.9020606@debian.org> from "Ben Gertzfield" at Sep 03, 2002 10:56:57 AM Message-ID: <200209032011.g83KB7ax000371@newbolt.sonic.net> This site has some info. I've never used netatalk, but it appears that it's tightly integrated with Linux. http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/faq.html#1.6 OS X is much nicer, but this is free. > > Ignacio Solis wrote: > > >Hi folks. > > > >I have a housemate who just got a MAC (OS 8.5, PPC 604). What's the best > >way to share files with the MAC? I have another housemate with an XP > >box, so we use Samba for that. > > > >If Samba is the answer, does anybody know what's the best software for > >Samba on said MAC? > > > Definitely have your housemate try the upgrade to Mac OS X 10.2. It > comes with full NFS and Samba support. No configuration necessary. > > Ben > > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From isolis at igso.net Tue Sep 10 19:36:48 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] New web page Message-ID: <1031711808.26707.11.camel@rasa> Hi folks. I've been working on a new set of web pages. Nothing much, just a different organization. The work in progress can be seen at http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/index2.html . There are still plenty of broken links and missing features, but I wanted to get your input. Feel free to aprove or disagree, scream, yell. I'll send another mail when I process your comments and add what's missing. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020910/2bed78e2/attachment.pgp From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Sep 10 19:56:31 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] New web page In-Reply-To: <1031711808.26707.11.camel@rasa> References: <1031711808.26707.11.camel@rasa> Message-ID: <20020911025631.GY12787@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > I've been working on a new set of web pages. Nothing much, just a > different organization. The work in progress can be seen at > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/index2.html . It looks good -- but I suggest that the most-needed information should be top-center & prominent on the front page. The most obvious candidate would be the day/date/time/place of the next 2-3 upcoming events. -- Cheers, "This is mad, egotistical, sick, twisted, and stretches the bounds of Rick Moen good taste right off the tongue, past the uvula, and down around rick@linuxmafia.com the duodenum. It has other merits, but that should indicate positive interest." -- The Cube, http://www.forum3000.org/ From isolis at igso.net Tue Sep 10 20:04:02 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] New web page In-Reply-To: <20020911025631.GY12787@linuxmafia.com> References: <1031711808.26707.11.camel@rasa> <20020911025631.GY12787@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1031713442.26712.18.camel@rasa> On Tue, 2002-09-10 at 19:56, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > > > I've been working on a new set of web pages. Nothing much, just a > > different organization. The work in progress can be seen at > > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/index2.html . > > It looks good -- but I suggest that the most-needed information should > be top-center & prominent on the front page. The most obvious candidate > would be the day/date/time/place of the next 2-3 upcoming events. I was planning to put the next meeting under News (when we agree on a meeting date), but maybe a section on Meetings before the news section is not a bad idea. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020910/2332fc30/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Thu Sep 12 13:00:06 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] What are UC students using? Message-ID: <20020912200006.GA17800@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Reading my daily dose of mailing lists, I came across a post from Dan Kegel on debian-user about a page he has on Linux in universities. Curiously I browse to it and find this link: http://ic.ucsc.edu/projects/student-survey.shtml I don't think I've seen it on the list so here it is. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020912/aa27d295/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Thu Sep 12 16:51:12 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting and Installfest Message-ID: <20020912235112.GA18153@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Hi folks, The start of classes is near. We should be planning on having an installfest and a meeting. How about a meeting at the end of the month and an installfest at the beginning of next month? Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020912/042c68df/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Fri Sep 13 13:50:46 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] New web pages up. Message-ID: <20020913205046.GG20043@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Hi folks. I switched to the new web pages. We are now mirroring Mandrake too. The mirror is just being updated. I added links to the pictures from the members page. I also added some new pictures. The web pages still need some work but I think they can handle the new students. :-) We need to define dates for the meetings and installfest. I put tentative dates (weeks) up. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020913/5cab2f98/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Fri Sep 13 18:34:36 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] GPG / PGP email signature check Message-ID: <20020914013436.GA20894@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020913/a11cb8d3/attachment.pgp From peterbe at sonic.net Sat Sep 14 07:35:55 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] What are UC students using? In-Reply-To: <20020912200006.GA17800@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 12, 2002 01:00:06 PM Message-ID: <200209141435.g8EEZtDq026770@newbolt.sonic.net> As a side issue, I note that the survey-results web page incorrectly identifies its character set. It claims to be in ISO 8859-1; instead it is in and uses extra characters in the Windows code page 1252. For those with some versions of Linux Netscape, the "smart quotes" and other characters in the range 0x80...0x9F appear as question marks. (Windows originally only used 8859-1; Aldus and other vendors of publishing software added the other characters in the mid-to-late '80s). Unfortunately, many WinDoze HTML editors enforce this incorrect behavior. Because of this, probably the best response on the part of Linux software writers is to cave in and effectively merge the 2 standards. Peter > > > --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Reading my daily dose of mailing lists, I came across a post from Dan > Kegel on debian-user about a page he has on Linux in universities. > > Curiously I browse to it and find this link: > > http://ic.ucsc.edu/projects/student-survey.shtml > > I don't think I've seen it on the list so here it is. > > Nacho > > --=20 > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are diffe= > rent > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg > > --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature > Content-Disposition: inline > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQE9gPJFHMjT3rMeEKsRArKCAJwI68uCbGqTx+AlChpjy1ILaP9/UQCeKVr3 > HxXtKO/E9zZJZ9gyPZLisb0= > =t8/m > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From isolis at igso.net Sat Sep 14 13:03:17 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] SlugLUG FAQ Message-ID: <20020914200317.GA3443@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Hi folks, I've started work on the SlugLUG FAQ. Please take a look, ask some questions, answer some more. Suggest any changes and point out errors. You can respond to the list for peer review. I know its still missing a lot. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020914/f40fb5bc/attachment.pgp From graham at calteg.org Sat Sep 14 13:41:08 2002 From: graham at calteg.org (Graham Freeman) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Thanks for the mirror Message-ID: Thanks to the SlugLUG mirror, I'm now a RedHat->Debian convert. -- Graham Freeman Executive Director, CalTEG tel: +1 831 466 0853 http://www.calteg.org/ From isolis at igso.net Wed Sep 18 13:34:50 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Linux at Stevenson Message-ID: <1032381291.11101.28.camel@rasa> Hi folks. I got this request for help but since I'm not in a College I can't really help. If anybody knows, could you please answer her and the list. Also, while you're at it, could you write a small howto about Linux at the colleges? :-) Nacho -----Forwarded Message----- > hi, my name is madeline. i'm a freshman at stevenson college. > my father recently bought me a computer with linux as its operating system. > unfortunately i can't get the ethernet connection to work. i looked through > the help menu and it said it either couldn't help me or i needed to hook it > up through proxy but i didn't know how to do that. can you help? thank you. > -madeline > p.s. my email is midnigh750@aol.com, i'm at a friend's computer -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020918/ff212e3d/attachment.pgp From atomb at cats.ucsc.edu Wed Sep 18 17:51:17 2002 From: atomb at cats.ucsc.edu (Aaron Tomb) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Linux at Stevenson In-Reply-To: <1032381291.11101.28.camel@rasa> References: <1032381291.11101.28.camel@rasa> Message-ID: <20020919005116.GA277@zonderling.yikes.com> Hi, I'm impressed/surprised that your father bought you a computer with Linux. It's getting more mainstream every day. I'd have to know more about the specific configuration of the computer to be able to give you any definite answers. In particular, it would help to know what "distribution" of Linux is loaded on it. The distributions I would expect to find preinstalled include Mandrake, RedHat, and perhaps Lindows or Lycorix. Do any of those names sound familiar? It probably mentions the name somewhere or other as it boots up. I can give you some basic pointers, however. The first is that the campus ethernet connections use the DHCP protocol to get their IP address. Until you have an IP address, it's not really possible to do any network communication. In whatever network configuration tool your system has (they vary between distributions), there should be a way to set that option. I imagine that if Linux was preinstalled, the ethernet card must be compatible with Linux, and have the appropriate drivers already set up. So, the problem must be at a higher level. If you know how to open up a console/terminal window, can you type the command ifconfig -a and write back with the information it prints out? Aaron On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 01:34:50PM -0700, Ignacio Solis wrote: > Hi folks. > > I got this request for help but since I'm not in a College I can't > really help. If anybody knows, could you please answer her and the list. > > Also, while you're at it, could you write a small howto about Linux at > the colleges? :-) > > > Nacho > > -----Forwarded Message----- > > hi, my name is madeline. i'm a freshman at stevenson college. > > my father recently bought me a computer with linux as its operating system. > > unfortunately i can't get the ethernet connection to work. i looked through > > the help menu and it said it either couldn't help me or i needed to hook it > > up through proxy but i didn't know how to do that. can you help? thank you. > > -madeline > > p.s. my email is midnigh750@aol.com, i'm at a friend's computer > > -- > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are > different > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -- From cerise at deepthought.armory.com Wed Sep 18 18:12:41 2002 From: cerise at deepthought.armory.com (Phil The Great) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... Message-ID: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> The time has come for many important questions to be answered. Questions like why going back to school sucks so much... Questions like where is the village and who is No. 1... Questions like when the heck is the next installfest?!?!?!?!? I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? I have a couple of ideas on how to better organize this installfest. Typically, we do a fairly decent job of getting linux installed on machines. What we _suck_ at is telling them anything about their bright, shiny, and new linuxes. We additionally suck at making them aware of how to keep their systems up to date. The time (IMHO) has come to fix this. In the past, we had David come by and give us a wonderful talk on PAM for the neophytes. In keeping with the theme, it is probably not a bad idea to hold a couple of fairly constant meetings lecturing these themes to the newbies. This will require some more active involvement on all of us, but I think we all agree that the payoff is something that really needs to be done. In addition, it will help swell the ranks of our rather sparse membership. We really need to keep in touch with our users more. But, in the meantime, we have some tasks to accomplish. 1) We need flyers. We can always recycle the old one, but we need a method of mass production. I don't expect to have as many as we did last time (nor as much fun with the staple gun...), but we need some. I would estimate that we can do fairly well with 30-50 flyers. Probably one of the best ways to accomplish the throughput is to ask everyone to print out as many as they feel comfortable. I plan to go around promoting the installfest again. Anyone who desires may come with. 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices in linux. 3) A list of topics for talks after the installfest! Incidentally, if David is still on the list and is willing to reprise his talk, I think we'd all appreciate it greatly. 4) Stuff. -Phil/CERisE P.S. While I'm at it, I think Nacho is long overdue for the shoutout he deserves for the work he put in on the new Sluglug system. In other non-slackful conditions, I'd place this note in a more eminent and attention grabbing part of the note. These are not those conditions... From isolis at igso.net Wed Sep 18 19:08:11 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> References: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> Message-ID: <20020919020811.GA62591@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Phil The Great (cerise@deepthought.armory.com) said: > I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? I suggest a meeting first, an installfest the next week. Say, a meeting the first week of October (Thursday 3rd?) and an installfest Saturday of the following week (12th). > The time (IMHO) has come to fix this. Monthly meetings. We just need to set the date. > 1) We need flyers. We can always recycle the old one, but we need a method > of mass production. I don't expect to have as many as we did last time > (nor as much fun with the staple gun...), but we need some. I would > estimate that we can do fairly well with 30-50 flyers. Probably one of > the best ways to accomplish the throughput is to ask everyone to print > out as many as they feel comfortable. I plan to go around promoting the > installfest again. Anyone who desires may come with. If whoever, sends me the flyer, I'll put a link up in the meetings webpage, which I need to update. > 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this > removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more > important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices > in linux. I disagree. I think choice is good. What we might need is to act a little more mature .... hehe. We also need to be prepared. The server is ready for netinstalls of debian, mandrake and redhat. I'm sure we can get slackware CDs around. We might agree on a preferred distro if the user has no opinion, in that case I would suggest Mandrake. The more adventurous types can choose debian or slackware. Red Hat is there if the user requests it though I must admit it's been a while since I've installed it. > 3) A list of topics for talks after the installfest! Incidentally, if David > is still on the list and is willing to reprise his talk, I think we'd all > appreciate it greatly. I think I sent a list of recommended topics before, I'll see if I find it, or I might just write it up again. We can post this on the website too. > P.S. While I'm at it, I think Nacho is long overdue for the shoutout he > deserves for the work he put in on the new Sluglug system. In other > non-slackful conditions, I'd place this note in a more eminent and > attention grabbing part of the note. These are not those conditions... No problem. Just send me updates to the webpages or contact me for suggestions. Also, please send me URLs to your personal pages so I can add them to the members page. Look at the bright side, it'll increase your ranking in google. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020918/f25af17d/attachment.pgp From fire at cats.ucsc.edu Wed Sep 18 21:59:41 2002 From: fire at cats.ucsc.edu (alexandra carey) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020919020811.GA62591@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: The IEEE Student Branch plans to have their first general meeting on Thursday, October 3, at 8pm. You are not required to plan around that; however, it may be nice since there is an overlap of interest groups. alex; On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Ignacio Solis wrote: :* Phil The Great (cerise@deepthought.armory.com) said: :> I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? : :I suggest a meeting first, an installfest the next week. Say, a meeting :the first week of October (Thursday 3rd?) and an installfest :Saturday of the following week (12th). : :> The time (IMHO) has come to fix this. : :Monthly meetings. We just need to set the date. : :> 1) We need flyers. We can always recycle the old one, but we need a method :> of mass production. I don't expect to have as many as we did last time :> (nor as much fun with the staple gun...), but we need some. I would :> estimate that we can do fairly well with 30-50 flyers. Probably one of :> the best ways to accomplish the throughput is to ask everyone to print :> out as many as they feel comfortable. I plan to go around promoting the :> installfest again. Anyone who desires may come with. : :If whoever, sends me the flyer, I'll put a link up in the meetings :webpage, which I need to update. : :> 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this :> removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more :> important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices :> in linux. : :I disagree. I think choice is good. What we might need is to act a :little more mature .... hehe. We also need to be prepared. The server is :ready for netinstalls of debian, mandrake and redhat. I'm sure we can :get slackware CDs around. We might agree on a preferred distro if the :user has no opinion, in that case I would suggest Mandrake. The more :adventurous types can choose debian or slackware. Red Hat is there if :the user requests it though I must admit it's been a while since I've :installed it. : :> 3) A list of topics for talks after the installfest! Incidentally, if David :> is still on the list and is willing to reprise his talk, I think we'd all :> appreciate it greatly. : :I think I sent a list of recommended topics before, I'll see if I find :it, or I might just write it up again. We can post this on the website :too. : :> P.S. While I'm at it, I think Nacho is long overdue for the shoutout he :> deserves for the work he put in on the new Sluglug system. In other :> non-slackful conditions, I'd place this note in a more eminent and :> attention grabbing part of the note. These are not those conditions... : :No problem. Just send me updates to the webpages or contact me for :suggestions. : : :Also, please send me URLs to your personal pages so I can add them to :the members page. Look at the bright side, it'll increase your ranking :in google. : :Nacho : :-- :In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different :EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB :GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg : trinary alex; fire@cats.ucsc.edu From parkm at cats.ucsc.edu Thu Sep 19 15:30:22 2002 From: parkm at cats.ucsc.edu (Michael Park) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> References: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> Message-ID: <1032474623.19983.10.camel@parkm.curiousyellow> > I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? I think the timing Nacho suggested is good. I'd like to do the installfest sooner, cuz I just got a new box, but I can wait... > > I have a couple of ideas on how to better organize this installfest. > Typically, we do a fairly decent job of getting linux installed on > machines. What we _suck_ at is telling them anything about their > bright, shiny, and new linuxes. We additionally suck at making > them aware of how to keep their systems up to date. > I agree. When I first had linux installed, I just fumbled around aimlessly for a really long time, having no clue where to go next or even how to figure out where to go next. If something didn't work, I would work on it forever, missing papers and deadlines (like when I couldn't print), then eventually give up and print from the library. > In the past, we had David come by and give us a wonderful talk on PAM > for the neophytes. In keeping with the theme, it is probably not a bad > idea to hold a couple of fairly constant meetings lecturing these themes > to the newbies. This will require some more active involvement on all > of us, but I think we all agree that the payoff is something that really > needs to be done. Newbie lectures = good. Even if I already know what is being presented, I can learn a little from the discussion. > 1) We need flyers. I can flier, as long as it's freely available on the website. I'll just print it out an post it wherever I don't already see one. I have a staple gun. > 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this > removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more > important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices > in linux. > Sure, it would be good for the indecisive or ambivalent to have a default install, but the options should remain. I think somebody's bound to sneak in a CD anyway... ;) --Michael From peterbe at sonic.net Thu Sep 19 19:46:43 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> from "Phil The Great" at Sep 18, 2002 06:12:41 PM Message-ID: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> Distros: I suspect any one distro won't satisfy everyone. Some people will just want to do a binary, don't have time, cpu speed, space, knowledge ... to build a lot of stuff. Others will be satisfied with no less than something like SourceMage. So narrowing down to 2 or 3 is probably a good goal. As for time, Thursday or later in the week is my vote (low priority, I suspect, I'm non-UCSC). Best time for installfest is 85 flame emails past the meeting at which the distro choice is discussed. 8=) Seriously, the meeting should establish 2 or 3 categories of distros and shoot for assigning one distro to each category. IMHO. Very H. Some 1-floppy distros for minimum systems would be nice. 8=) > > The time has come for many important questions to be answered. > Questions like when the heck is the next installfest?!?!?!?!? > > I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? > > I have a couple of ideas on how to better organize this installfest. > Typically, we do a fairly decent job of getting linux installed on > machines. What we _suck_ at is telling them anything about their > bright, shiny, and new linuxes. We additionally suck at making > them aware of how to keep their systems up to date. > > The time (IMHO) has come to fix this. > > In the past, we had David come by and give us a wonderful talk on PAM > for the neophytes. In keeping with the theme, it is probably not a bad > idea to hold a couple of fairly constant meetings lecturing these themes > to the newbies. This will require some more active involvement on all > of us, but I think we all agree that the payoff is something that really > needs to be done. > > In addition, it will help swell the ranks of our rather sparse membership. > We really need to keep in touch with our users more. > > But, in the meantime, we have some tasks to accomplish. > > 1) We need flyers. We can always recycle the old one, but we need a method > of mass production. I don't expect to have as many as we did last time > (nor as much fun with the staple gun...), but we need some. I would > estimate that we can do fairly well with 30-50 flyers. Probably one of > the best ways to accomplish the throughput is to ask everyone to print > out as many as they feel comfortable. I plan to go around promoting the > installfest again. Anyone who desires may come with. > > 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this > removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more > important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices > in linux. > > 3) A list of topics for talks after the installfest! Incidentally, if David > is still on the list and is willing to reprise his talk, I think we'd all > appreciate it greatly. > > 4) Stuff. > > -Phil/CERisE > > P.S. While I'm at it, I think Nacho is long overdue for the shoutout he > deserves for the work he put in on the new Sluglug system. In other > non-slackful conditions, I'd place this note in a more eminent and > attention grabbing part of the note. These are not those conditions... > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From phig at phig.org Fri Sep 20 06:23:51 2002 From: phig at phig.org (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> Message-ID: Sometime in the recent past Phil/CERisE wrote: > > 2) I'd feel alot better if we agreed on a distribution to install. While this > > removes the time-honored tradition of the distro wars, I think it's more > > important to keep newbies from having to deal with the plethora of choices > > in linux. On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Peter Belew K6QQG wrote: > Distros: I suspect any one distro won't satisfy everyone. Some > people will just want to do a binary, don't have time, cpu speed, > space, knowledge ... to build a lot of stuff. Others will be > satisfied with no less than something like SourceMage. So narrowing > down to 2 or 3 is probably a good goal. > > Seriously, the > meeting should establish 2 or 3 categories of distros and shoot > for assigning one distro to each category. IMHO. Very H. > > Some 1-floppy distros for minimum systems would be nice. I think this is the start of a nice compromise between the desire to simplify choices for newbies into something that makes sense ("Vanilla, chocolate, or lots of little crunchy things in a swirl of four flavors?"). At the least, general categories and descriptions seems reasonable. This way we can avoid, uh, disparaging remarks made unecessarily in front of newbies who Just Don't Get It about why you think "Debian is the hippie-commune distribution" or "Red Hat is the Borg." Personally I would categorize by adventurousness. Those seeking the most safety should turn to Mandrake, Red Hat or perhaps United Linux down the road. More adventurous should choose Debian or one of the more easy to manage/understand source-wielding distros. And so forth. This para just MHO, but you get the idea. Ultimately, I think we want people to see that there are choices, they are not locked down, they can get a Linux that will revive Mom's 486-DX100 from the basement, they can change their mind later and IT'S OKAY TO CHANGE YOUR DISTRO and not LOSE EVERYTHING. That is a mind boggling idea to people who suffered Mac to Windows 3.1 to Windows nXYZ. - k' > > 8=) > > > > > The time has come for many important questions to be answered. > > Questions like when the heck is the next installfest?!?!?!?!? > > > > I believe 3 weeks is a good time? Possibly less? Comments? > > > > I have a couple of ideas on how to better organize this installfest. > > Typically, we do a fairly decent job of getting linux installed on > > machines. What we _suck_ at is telling them anything about their > > bright, shiny, and new linuxes. We additionally suck at making > > them aware of how to keep their systems up to date. > > > > The time (IMHO) has come to fix this. > > > > In the past, we had David come by and give us a wonderful talk on PAM > > for the neophytes. In keeping with the theme, it is probably not a bad > > idea to hold a couple of fairly constant meetings lecturing these themes > > to the newbies. This will require some more active involvement on all > > of us, but I think we all agree that the payoff is something that really > > needs to be done. > > > > In addition, it will help swell the ranks of our rather sparse membership. > > We really need to keep in touch with our users more. > > > > But, in the meantime, we have some tasks to accomplish. > > > > 1) We need flyers. We can always recycle the old one, but we need a method > > of mass production. I don't expect to have as many as we did last time > > (nor as much fun with the staple gun...), but we need some. I would > > estimate that we can do fairly well with 30-50 flyers. Probably one of > > the best ways to accomplish the throughput is to ask everyone to print > > out as many as they feel comfortable. I plan to go around promoting the > > installfest again. Anyone who desires may come with. > > > > > > 3) A list of topics for talks after the installfest! Incidentally, if David > > is still on the list and is willing to reprise his talk, I think we'd all > > appreciate it greatly. > > > > 4) Stuff. > > > > -Phil/CERisE > > > > P.S. While I'm at it, I think Nacho is long overdue for the shoutout he > > deserves for the work he put in on the new Sluglug system. In other > > non-slackful conditions, I'd place this note in a more eminent and > > attention grabbing part of the note. These are not those conditions... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > > > > > -- > > peterbe@sonic.net > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > < > Karsten Wade < > | karsten@phig.org | "As sharp as the leading | http://phig.org/gpg | edge of a ball bearing." < > http://blog.phig.org < > - Dallas Dobro From shaeffer at neuralscape.com Fri Sep 20 09:48:11 2002 From: shaeffer at neuralscape.com (Karen Shaeffer) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: ; from phig@phig.org on Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 06:23:51AM -0700 References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> Message-ID: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 06:23:51AM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Peter Belew K6QQG wrote: > > > Some 1-floppy distros for minimum systems would be nice. > > I think this is the start of a nice compromise between the desire to > simplify choices for newbies into something that makes sense ("Vanilla, > chocolate, or lots of little crunchy things in a swirl of four flavors?"). > > At the least, general categories and descriptions seems reasonable. This > way we can avoid, uh, disparaging remarks made unnecessarily in front of > newbies who Just Don't Get It about why you think "Debian is the > hippie-commune distribution" or "Red Hat is the Borg." Hello folks, It seems to me that you folks ought to think in terms of the big picture. The global context of distributions is more important than the opinions of particular "experts". I'm saying that to best serve your newbies, you should attempt to help them understand where all these distributions fit into the world of computing. In particular, if the folks are interested in running linux to help them prepare for life in the professional world, then they should be aware that all the major corporate entities have standardized on Red Hat--making it the current defacto standard for business applications today. Personally, I am a big fan of Debian. But I run Red Hat for professional reasons. The truth is: You can do anything with Red Hat--if you are expert in it's implementation and have good knowledge of the Red Hat community. And when these folks go to get a job someday--knowing this stuff could make the difference. I don't expect everyone to agree with me here. It's ok. But newbies ought to be advised of the business community's view of Linux... cheers, Karen -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape; Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060 shaeffer@neuralscape.com http://www.neuralscape.com From parkm at cats.ucsc.edu Fri Sep 20 11:01:10 2002 From: parkm at cats.ucsc.edu (Michael Park) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> Message-ID: Karen said: >It seems to me that you folks ought to think in terms of the big picture. >The global context of distributions is more important than the opinions of >particular "experts". I'm saying that to best serve your newbies, you should >attempt to help them understand where all these distributions fit into the >world of computing. In particular, if the folks are interested in running >linux to help them prepare for life in the professional world, then they >should be aware that all the major corporate entities have standardized on >Red Hat--making it the current defacto standard for business applications >today. I think this is a very good topic of discussion for one of those "newbie-friendly" meetings I keep hearing about. Job possibilities, distribution of distros in the business community and common uses of various distros by various companies, etc. are all good topics I think I would benefit from. If I may propose another topic, I would like an overview of filesystems: various forms, pros/cons, etc. Having been accosted for not using jfs without ever knowing anything about it, I think this would be good. To be honest, though I've been using linux for a year and a half (first installed at an installfest!), I've been hesitant to attend meetings because of a certain elitism I've detected on the list. When you guys helped me with my first installation, you were very friendly, but I always get this feeling like I don't know enough to hang out with you, which is unfortunate, because I would really love to learn more. I think being more "newbie-friendly" is a very good thing for all of us. That's my $.02. Michael From peterbe at sonic.net Fri Sep 20 11:40:17 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: from "Michael Park" at Sep 20, 2002 11:01:10 AM Message-ID: <200209201840.g8KIeHp4026630@newbolt.sonic.net> Well, we are all newbies at SOMEthing. Nothing to fear from the experts! Regarding distros, Redhat should certainly be on the list, since it's what is most likely to be encountered in jobs. SuSE fills a similar ecological niche in Europe. Other distros are best for developers who want to install and optimize the latest software, especially distros which download and build from source. I personally installed Slackware on an old 486 box because the other distro I had disks for didn't support the 486 out of the box. Right now I'm concentrating on RH at home because that's what's used in a networking class I'm taking. Otherwise I'd venture into Gentoo, SourceMage, or Debian. For someone who wants to learn how to configure Linux, a caveat is that some distros venture farther from a 'standard' directory layout for configuration etc., Slackware being an example (more like BSD than RH, Debian, etc.) And I know one or two people who have small, old, slow systems where a floppy distro would be appropriate for starters. Also this can be the way to go for building routers. Peter > > Karen said: > >It seems to me that you folks ought to think in terms of the big picture. > >The global context of distributions is more important than the opinions of > >particular "experts". I'm saying that to best serve your newbies, you should > >attempt to help them understand where all these distributions fit into the > >world of computing. In particular, if the folks are interested in running > >linux to help them prepare for life in the professional world, then they > >should be aware that all the major corporate entities have standardized on > >Red Hat--making it the current defacto standard for business applications > >today. > > I think this is a very good topic of discussion for one of those > "newbie-friendly" meetings I keep hearing about. Job possibilities, > distribution of distros in the business community and common uses of > various distros by various companies, etc. are all good topics I > think I would benefit from. > > If I may propose another topic, I would like an overview of > filesystems: various forms, pros/cons, etc. Having been accosted > for not using jfs without ever knowing anything about it, I think > this would be good. > > To be honest, though I've been using linux for a year and a half > (first installed at an installfest!), I've been hesitant to attend > meetings because of a certain elitism I've detected on the list. > When you guys helped me with my first installation, you were very > friendly, but I always get this feeling like I don't know enough to > hang out with you, which is unfortunate, because I would really love > to learn more. I think being more "newbie-friendly" is a very good > thing for all of us. > > That's my $.02. > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From phig at phig.org Fri Sep 20 13:34:39 2002 From: phig at phig.org (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > > I think this is the start of a nice compromise between the desire to > > simplify choices for newbies into something that makes sense ("Vanilla, > > chocolate, or lots of little crunchy things in a swirl of four flavors?"). > > > > At the least, general categories and descriptions seems reasonable. This > > way we can avoid, uh, disparaging remarks made unnecessarily in front of > > newbies who Just Don't Get It about why you think "Debian is the > > hippie-commune distribution" or "Red Hat is the Borg." > > It seems to me that you folks ought to think in terms of the big picture. > The global context of distributions is more important than the opinions of > particular "experts". I'm saying that to best serve your newbies, you should > attempt to help them understand where all these distributions fit into the > world of computing. In particular, if the folks are interested in running > linux to help them prepare for life in the professional world, then they > should be aware that all the major corporate entities have standardized on > Red Hat--making it the current defacto standard for business applications > today. I think, largely, that was my point. That we wanted to provide people real context for opinions and suggestions, not just the usual elitist religious wars. - k' < > Karsten Wade < > | karsten@phig.org | "As sharp as the leading | http://phig.org/gpg | edge of a ball bearing." < > http://blog.phig.org < > - Dallas Dobro From isolis at igso.net Fri Sep 20 13:52:11 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <200209201840.g8KIeHp4026630@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> References: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> Message-ID: <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Boy oh boy some many things to respond to. * Peter Belew K6QQG (peterbe@sonic.net) said: > As for time, Thursday or later in the week is my vote (low > priority, I suspect, I'm non-UCSC). Every vote counts specially when other people don't have opinions. * Karen Shaeffer (shaeffer@neuralscape.com) said: > Personally, I am a big fan of Debian. But I run Red Hat for professional > reasons. The truth is: You can do anything with Red Hat--if you are expert > in it's implementation and have good knowledge of the Red Hat community. > And when these folks go to get a job someday--knowing this stuff could make > the difference. I agree that you can do anything with Red Hat, after all, it's a complete GNU/Linux system. However, unless the user wants it, I wouldn't recommend it. I would suggest Mandrake better. I recognize Red Hat is a industry sort-of standard, so if your company uses it and suggests you use it, then fine. If not and you just want to dip your toes, go for Mandrake, you can find a few things here and there that might be more suited for "personal use" (Mandrake Gaming, etc). If you require Red Hat, you probably know it and request Red Hat. Now, if you're talking about being prepared for the industry, then go with something like debian, slackware or bsd. You learn more with them. This knowledge can then be applied to other distros buy looking at them for a little while or buying a cheap book. * Michael Park (parkm@cats.ucsc.edu) said: > To be honest, though I've been using linux for a year and a half > (first installed at an installfest!), I've been hesitant to attend > meetings because of a certain elitism I've detected on the list. > When you guys helped me with my first installation, you were very > friendly, but I always get this feeling like I don't know enough to > hang out with you, which is unfortunate, because I would really love > to learn more. I think being more "newbie-friendly" is a very good > thing for all of us. I don't know what you mean by elitism. You could mean that people here in the list seem to know a lot and talk about advanced topics, or/and they look down on outsiders/newbies. I really hope it's not the later. As for the former, thats part of the list, where else are you going to ask advanced questions? The proposal to divide the list in 2 for example, which sometimes people suggest, is not an option in my point of view. A lot of the "experts" are the ones that answer the newbies questions. Now, having said that, I've tried to make the list/group more accessible by working on the web pages. They should hopefully give newbies good pointers to look for info and confidence to ask in the list. I think I've never answered badly to a newbie, but it does bother me if they didn't make an effort to find stuff out on their own. At _least_ one google search. If the answer to your question is in the first page of an (obvious) google search, you shouldn't have to ask the question in a list. If this is what you call elitism then I'm guilty for it. (of course that's a narrow explanation and there are _many_ exceptions to the rule) * Peter Belew K6QQG (peterbe@sonic.net) said: > Well, we are all newbies at SOMEthing. Nothing to fear from the > experts! We were also newbies once. > Right now I'm concentrating on RH at home because that's what's used > in a networking class I'm taking. Otherwise I'd venture into > Gentoo, SourceMage, or Debian. I don't think gentoo and SourceMage should be options at an installfest. If somebody wants any of those kinds of distros, they know it. I don't think any newbie should go to one of those. Of course, the installfest is not only for newbies either. If you're having problem compiling X in your SourceMage installation on the XBox bring it over, if more heads don't think better than one, they at least can have more fun than one. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020920/e0f436f4/attachment.pgp From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Sep 20 14:09:59 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:32 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > I recognize Red Hat is a industry sort-of standard... ITYM "collective delusion". HTH. > I don't know what you mean by elitism. Neither does he. Isn't togetherness fun? > Now, having said that, I've tried to make the list/group more accessible > by working on the web pages. They should hopefully give newbies good > pointers to look for info and confidence to ask in the list. Horse. Water. Drink. > I don't think gentoo and SourceMage should be options at an installfest. So, if you had installation media handy, and somebody asked, you'd say "No"? I keep all of these handy: http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/#distros When people ask "Which is best?", I start out with "That's a religious question", characterise a bunch of them briefly, and point out that you can try as many as you have time for, consecutively, and decide what you like best. -- Cheers, When encryption is outlawed, Rick Moen only outlaws will xr2d3fsxd df#$%xx` rick@linuxmafia.com From isolis at igso.net Fri Sep 20 14:44:33 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) said: > > I don't think gentoo and SourceMage should be options at an installfest. > > So, if you had installation media handy, and somebody asked, you'd say > "No"? Common Rick, you know what I meant. It would actually be nice since I would be learning myself. I just meant that offering Gentoo and such to newbies might not be a good idea. Weren't we trying to avoid confusing them? N: What are the options? I: We have ...... and gentoo. N: What is gentoo? I: It's a distro that compiles everything. N: What is compilation? I: It's when you make a runnable program from the source code ... like the recepie. N: ooook.. , what's that good for? I: Well it can make some programs run faster bu..... N: Ok, I want it. > I keep all of these handy: http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/#distros > When people ask "Which is best?", I start out with "That's a religious > question", characterise a bunch of them briefly, and point out that you > can try as many as you have time for, consecutively, and decide what you > like best. My suggestion is normally: run what your friend runs. In case you have no friends, or your friends don't run Linux, the best thing is to start with what the people at the local LUG are confortable with. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020920/82f64040/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Fri Sep 20 16:51:18 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting - Installfest dates and suggestions Message-ID: <1032565878.13296.15.camel@rasa> Ok, so how'bout: First meeting: Date: Wed October 2, 7pm Topic: Introduction to Linux (Linux for the Layperson) - Why am I a newbie? What is a newbie? - What is Linux? - What can I do with Linux? - Why Linux? - Where can I get Linux? (hint hint, installfest) - Where can I get help? (This presentation(s) is not supposed to go into great details, i.e.vim, emacs, etc) Advanced Topic: ?? Other: Lay out installfest plan, group direction (seems ok), future meeting suggestions. Key signing party planning. Installfest: Sat October 12, 1pm Distros? Getting network ports? Bringing cables, monitors, keybs, mouse, etc. Last installfest was pretty good so I'll let the install-master take over. Maybe we can get an add in one of the weekly papers... Nacho -- "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020920/cb32d788/attachment.pgp From peterbe at sonic.net Fri Sep 20 18:59:04 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting - Installfest dates and suggestions In-Reply-To: <1032565878.13296.15.camel@rasa> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 20, 2002 04:51:18 PM Message-ID: <200209210159.g8L1x4P5028106@newbolt.sonic.net> I can't make Wednesday meetings. Peter > > > --=-0qVcSpzzqbE1qLXD9uy+ > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Ok, so how'bout: > > First meeting: > Date: Wed October 2, 7pm > Topic: Introduction to Linux (Linux for the Layperson) > - Why am I a newbie? What is a newbie? > - What is Linux? > - What can I do with Linux? > - Why Linux? > - Where can I get Linux? (hint hint, installfest) > - Where can I get help? > (This presentation(s) is not supposed to go into great details, > i.e.vim, emacs, etc) > > Advanced Topic: ?? > > Other: Lay out installfest plan, group direction (seems ok),=20 > future meeting suggestions. Key signing party planning. > > Installfest: > Sat October 12, 1pm > > Distros? > Getting network ports? > Bringing cables, monitors, keybs, mouse, etc. > > Last installfest was pretty good so I'll let the install-master take =20 > over. Maybe we can get an add in one of the weekly papers... > > > Nacho > > --=20 > "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg > > --=-0qVcSpzzqbE1qLXD9uy+ > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc > Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQA9i7R1HMjT3rMeEKsRAtJrAJ91Uqd35EZ5dHLEPd+ND6EpbqMm5gCg554O > HpOimZfWrXSgrezAfIQe+dA= > =rkbv > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --=-0qVcSpzzqbE1qLXD9uy+-- > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From peterbe at sonic.net Fri Sep 20 19:09:19 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting - Installfest dates and suggestions In-Reply-To: <1032565878.13296.15.camel@rasa> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 20, 2002 04:51:18 PM Message-ID: <200209210209.g8L29JUI028716@newbolt.sonic.net> Also there are a number of other Cabrillo people who also have a Linux networking class on Wednesday nights, and would like to come. - Peter > > > Ok, so how'bout: > > First meeting: > Date: Wed October 2, 7pm > Topic: Introduction to Linux (Linux for the Layperson) > -- peterbe@sonic.net From shaeffer at neuralscape.com Fri Sep 20 20:17:20 2002 From: shaeffer at neuralscape.com (Karen Shaeffer) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: ; from phig@phig.org on Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 01:34:39PM -0700 References: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> Message-ID: <20020920201720.A22603@synapse.neuralscape.com> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 01:34:39PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > > I think, largely, that was my point. That we wanted to provide people > real context for opinions and suggestions, not just the usual elitist > religious wars. > > - k' No doubt that's the case. I just made it crystal clear to any newbies on the list. cheers, Karen -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape; Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060 shaeffer@neuralscape.com http://www.neuralscape.com From shaeffer at neuralscape.com Fri Sep 20 20:51:30 2002 From: shaeffer at neuralscape.com (Karen Shaeffer) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu>; from isolis@igso.net on Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 01:52:11PM -0700 References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <200209201840.g8KIeHp4026630@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020920205130.B22603@synapse.neuralscape.com> On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 01:52:11PM -0700, Ignacio Solis wrote: > > I agree that you can do anything with Red Hat, after all, it's a > complete GNU/Linux system. However, unless the user wants it, I wouldn't > recommend it. I would suggest Mandrake better. I recognize Red Hat is a > industry sort-of standard, so if your company uses it and suggests you > use it, then fine. If not and you just want to dip your toes, go for > Mandrake, you can find a few things here and there that might be more > suited for "personal use" (Mandrake Gaming, etc). If you require Red Hat, > you probably know it and request Red Hat. Certainly Mandrake is for personal use desktops. And for folks who only have those goals--I would agree it's a better choice than Red Hat. Furthermore, I am not advocating the use of Red Hat. It's a decision each new Linux user needs to make--based on their own goals. I'm simply saying that the industry has standardized on Red Hat. That's a fact today. These new users should be aware of this when they contemplate what distribution is best for them. That was my point. > > Now, if you're talking about being prepared for the industry, then go > with something like debian, slackware or bsd. You learn more with them. > This knowledge can then be applied to other distros buy looking at them > for a little while or buying a cheap book. Hmmm, you've shown a bias. You can learn as much with Red Hat as any other distribution. You learn by doing. It has very little to do with the distribution. Red Hat ships all the source code. It's all there. Anyone is free to dive in and learn at will. I'm busy and have no more time for this thread, but I have enjoyed the comments. Thanks. cheers, Karen -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape; Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060 shaeffer@neuralscape.com http://www.neuralscape.com From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Sat Sep 21 00:38:21 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920205130.B22603@synapse.neuralscape.com> Message-ID: > > Hmmm, you've shown a bias. You can learn as much with Red Hat as any > other distribution. You learn by doing. It has very little to do with the > distribution. Red Hat ships all the source code. It's all there. Anyone is > free to dive in and learn at will. > (not to spark flames and ignite a religous war...but) I tend to disagree with that. 6 months ago i was still a relative newbie. I had tried Redhat /many/ times prior, unsucessfully. When i finally burned the bridge to windows i was on redhat and although everything was there, clearing away all the stuff that was in the way was tedious business. I learned more in a few weeks on a simpler distro (slack in my case) then i did for all those other attempts at running redhat and messing something up somewhere trying to get around 'linuxconf' or any of the other lovely helpful things they put in the way. the problem lies in the stuff that the heftier distro's give you to help get things set up. They are helpful, if/when you find and use them, but if you really want to learn whats going on, they just get in the way. Anyways i dont want to rant on and on about this, but from personal experience if one is looking to learn more about 'how it all works' they are far better off with a distro more tailored to that, rather then one tailored to the desktop user with lots of quant GUI tools to help out.. but i do agree with the general consensus that something like mandrake is probably our best bet for most (non adventurous) newbies. Andrew From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 01:08:16 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> Query to the listadmin, iant@cats.ucsc.edu: Is sluglug@hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu what the list will henceforth advertise itself as? It's been variously sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu or sluglug@sluglug.org in the past. The list archive Web page claims the list address is sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu . Either the list itself is misconfigured, or the Web page is outdated. Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > Common Rick, you know what I meant. It would actually be nice since I > would be learning myself. Actually, I'm glad you said that, because it underlines a point I was about to make: I figure that installfest volunteers are willing to participate in part because they get to do things that interest them. Correct? Just a reality check: I keep hearing so much high-flown rhetoric about "giving users what they want" that I was beginning to think this was a monastic order. I don't know about you, but I like to enjoy what I do during installfest, entirely aside from giving substantive help and "giving users what they want". (The latter two are distinct things, particularly when so many newcomers don't really understand what they're discussing when they tell you what they "want".) There, I figure that should step on a _bunch_ of pieties. ;-> > I just meant that offering Gentoo and such to newbies might not be a > good idea. I suppose that depends on what you're thinking of, when you say "offering", yes? (Did I pass? ;-> I'm always uncertain on these essay tests.) > Weren't we trying to avoid confusing them? What would it be like if there were no rhetorical questions? I suppose if you guys can't figure out how to tell people concisely and clearly what's significant about a particular distribution, that would be a suitable problem to work on. Hasn't been a problem at CABAL and SVLUG over the last decade. > My suggestion is normally: run what your friend runs. In case you have > no friends, or your friends don't run Linux, the best thing is to start > with what the people at the local LUG are confortable with. How very, very dull. My suggestion is: Run what you want. If you don't know what you want, pick one that sounds interesting on the basis of available information. If it turns out that you don't like it, and maybe even if you do, try another one. Hell, even if you have to buy your own discs of each, they're only $1.99 at LSL. In recent years, most newcomers seem to drift aimlessly towards Red Hat for no particular reason they can articulate. This is mildly depressing, not to mention _very_ dull. But it's their funeral, and CABAL and SVLUG's installfests can and do help them with those about as well as any of the others. (Nobody's installer is exactly brain surgery. On a lucky day, we get some challenging and unfamiliar _hardware_, like maybe a Multia.) I do give the tiniest of push to some of the drifting-to-Red-Hat-I-guess people who seem desktop-ish to give Libranet a try, instead. Or sometimes SuSE. People _really_ seem to like those. -- Cheers, The other day, upon the stair, Rick Moen I met a man who wasn't there. rick@linuxmafia.com He wasn't there again today; I think he's from the CIA. From peterbe at sonic.net Sat Sep 21 01:07:16 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Stitt" at Sep 21, 2002 12:38:21 AM Message-ID: <200209210807.g8L87G7V027696@newbolt.sonic.net> Hi - > I tend to disagree with that. 6 months ago i was still a relative newbie. > I had tried Redhat /many/ times prior, unsucessfully. When i finally My own experience has been pretty good with Redhat installations, over various releases from 5.0 to 7.2. Possibly this depends a lot on supported or non-supported hardware. > burned the bridge to windows i was on redhat and although everything was > there, clearing away all the stuff that was in the way was tedious > business. I learned more in a few weeks on a simpler distro (slack in my > case) then i did for all those other attempts at running redhat and > messing something up somewhere trying to get around 'linuxconf' or any of > the other lovely helpful things they put in the way. > > the problem lies in the stuff that the heftier distro's give you to help > get things set up. They are helpful, if/when you find and use them, but > if you really want to learn whats going on, they just get in the way. This is true - once you learn to do the standard command-line stuff. > > Anyways i dont want to rant on and on about this, but from personal > experience if one is looking to learn more about 'how it all works' they > are far better off with a distro more tailored to that, rather then one > tailored to the desktop user with lots of quant GUI tools to help out.. I guess it depends on the user. > > but i do agree with the general consensus that something like mandrake is > probably our best bet for most (non adventurous) newbies. Mandrake seems to have a nice and easy-to-use installer and config tools, but I've had some really annoying problems with getting it to partition properly (I believe that was an 8.0 release), getting printing to work properly, and the default installations does seem to omit some utilities that RH installs (I forget now which ones - this was a few months back). Their printed documentation is nice. I did encounter a 'basic' version of Mandrake which would not install on one of my machines - trying to upgrade a minor version or two. I ended up installing RH 7.2 instead. Hopefully these problems have been addressed in later releases. What SuSE printed documentation I've seen looks pretty good. An issue for those who like to peruse docs in the tub or whatever. 8=) An issue is how easy it is to upgrade or install fixes in the OS. That's something that's worth discussing for various distros. Peter > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From isolis at igso.net Sat Sep 21 03:26:42 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) said: > Query to the listadmin, iant@cats.ucsc.edu: Is > sluglug@hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu what the list will henceforth advertise > itself as? It's been variously sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu or > sluglug@sluglug.org in the past. It's actually not a problem with the list, it's a problem with DNS. I've tried to fix it by setting up the MTA but have failed. The problem is as follows. The machine's real name is hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. That was the name before the sluglug stuff was moved and it's part of cse. Now, sluglug.ucsc.edu is a CNAME to hermosa. That means that MTAs will look for sluglugs MX record, get the CNAME response back, query again for hermosa's MX record, which will correspod to hermosa itself. This means that most mail comming in comes to hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. Now, you might ask, who rewrites the envelope and/or internal header? Well in the process of reforwarding mail internally (by mailman) it gets changed. I've tried changing the setup of postfix and even changed to exim to see if I could get it. This is not my first time with MTAs so it's not that I feel unconfortable. I haven't changed to sendmail yet (which I use on my other systems) maily for 2 reasons: 1. It works perfectly fine, you just get a different address in the header when you mail. 2. It might not solve all the problems, some MTAs (the ones from the recepients) might change headers if they have options that do reverse MX checks. Now, which part affects the envelope and which the internal headers, I don't really know. One way to solve this is by 1. fixing DNS. Or 2, setting up the MTA correctly. I still don't know what the option is. And no, it's not myhostname, mydomain or myorigin. Fixes and suggestions are of course, welcome. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020921/9c3d6ccb/attachment.pgp From shaeffer at neuralscape.com Sat Sep 21 09:13:59 2002 From: shaeffer at neuralscape.com (Karen Shaeffer) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: ; from astitt@cats.ucsc.edu on Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 12:38:21AM -0700 References: <20020920205130.B22603@synapse.neuralscape.com> Message-ID: <20020921091359.A25572@synapse.neuralscape.com> On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 12:38:21AM -0700, Andrew Stitt wrote: > > > > I tend to disagree with that. 6 months ago i was still a relative newbie. > I had tried Redhat /many/ times prior, unsucessfully. When i finally > burned the bridge to windows i was on redhat and although everything was > there, clearing away all the stuff that was in the way was tedious > business. I learned more in a few weeks on a simpler distro (slack in my > case) then i did for all those other attempts at running redhat and > messing something up somewhere trying to get around 'linuxconf' or any of > the other lovely helpful things they put in the way. > > > the problem lies in the stuff that the heftier distro's give you to help > get things set up. They are helpful, if/when you find and use them, but > if you really want to learn whats going on, they just get in the way. Your comments are good ones. Red Hat is a complex distribution. And if you consider the evolving trajectory of Red Hat, from version to version, you'll eventually figure out that this is not by accident. They deliberately make it difficult to think out of the box. It's a business decision. They need a large number of corporate customers to pay expensive service contracts. They also do it to stymie all the distros that use Red Hat as a base. So you have to expend more energy to learn about the trajectory of the vagary aspects of Red Hat at the beginning of the learning curve. But these vagary aspects are exactly the type of expertise that corporations are willing to pay you for. So, if your goal is to earn money off of Linux expertise, you are not exactly wasting your time. (This is not to say that you can't earn money from having Debian (for example) expertise, because many folks with Debian expertise are doing very well.) Personally, I don't load Gnome or KDE. I run fvwm2 on X and simply a virtual terminal while doing kernel work. I don't load any of Red Hat's gui based tools or any of their automated configuration and maintenance utilities. So I have to learn about the internal details of any application I need to work with. So my expertise is not focused on "efficient" Red Hat system administration, but rather on systems engineering involving Red Hat distributions. If you want to become an expert with Red Hat, then you need to be an expert with RPM. (And RPM documentation is totally obsolete--again no accident) If you don't maintain the integrity of the RPM database, then you will eventually have problems. I recommend autorpm for maintaining a Red Hat distribution. When you install third party software, if you can't find an acceptable rpm package, then you need to be able to build your own. I also recommend doing network installs with kickstart or one of the many third party utilities available from the Red Hat community. If you don't like Red Hat, then I recommend Debian. Even though there is a steep learning curve at the beginning (Just like Red Hat), the trajectory of Debian is engineered for the convenience of those who use it. Debian is a very well thought out distribution. Once you get your feet on the ground with Debian, then you can do more things more efficiently than any other distribution I have knowledge of. cheers, Karen -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape; Santa Cruz, Ca. 95060 shaeffer@neuralscape.com http://www.neuralscape.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 11:52:40 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: (forw) Re: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... Message-ID: <20020921185240.GJ30391@linuxmafia.com> Presumably dropped off the list by mistake. ----- Forwarded message from Phil White ----- Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 02:18:21 -0700 From: Phil White To: Rick Moen Subject: Re: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 01:08:16AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Actually, I'm glad you said that, because it underlines a point I was > about to make: I figure that installfest volunteers are willing to > participate in part because they get to do things that interest them. > Correct? Just a reality check: I keep hearing so much high-flown > rhetoric about "giving users what they want" that I was beginning to > think this was a monastic order. > > I don't know about you, but I like to enjoy what I do during > installfest, entirely aside from giving substantive help and "giving > users what they want". (The latter two are distinct things, > particularly when so many newcomers don't really understand what they're > discussing when they tell you what they "want".) > > [ snip ] > > I suppose if you guys can't figure out how to tell people concisely and > clearly what's significant about a particular distribution, that would > be a suitable problem to work on. Hasn't been a problem at CABAL and > SVLUG over the last decade. So tell me Rick...Has Linux supplanted Windows in the homes of everyone yet? No? Imagine my shock. Considering that every one on this list has tried a distro that they didn't like and move on (and I suspect _started_ with that distro...), I think it's fair to say that your approach which has worked _ever_ so well for you doesn't work very well for the people you're trying to help. When messing with someone else's hardware, it's often better to think of them and not yourself. This seems to be a great difficulty in Rick Moen's ROM. But that's aside from the point. Users have difficulty making independent, intelligent choices about stuff they know little to nothing about. They worry about breaking their system. They brought it to you because you are a (self-proclaimed) expert who can make their computer cooler. In most cases, they'd really like nothing more than to leave their computer there, come back in a couple of hours, and have it do _cool_ stuff like burn CDs, play mp3s, play games, and give them all the stuff they need for their schoolwork. Part of making their computer cool is their observations of installing Linux on their system. Linux is a lot less cool if someone has to hack around for most of the day to get X going. Linux is a lot cooler if someone pops a CD in, clicks a couple of times, and hands you the system. I want to make Linux cool for people. I want them to be interested in a better way of computing. I hope that they'll be interested in it. I try to make them interested in it. That's the point of an installfest in my view. It's also the point of a LUG. As a result, I'd like to have users install Xandros or Lycoris. Perhaps Mandrake, but I've had bad experiences with their installer and trying to fix stuff. There's exceptions to the rule. If someone is already genuinely interested and they've done their research, then by all means, let them make their own decisions. If they don't know anything about the topic, then don't force them to know it. Make it all _just_ work and you'll do a greater service to them and the Linux community at large than you would otherwise. That's the main thing. Of course, if being an effective LUG to you means being a monastic order, then let me be the first to congratulate you on removing yourself from the gene pool by celibacy. In addition, let me encourage you to take a vow of silence for similar reasons. -Phil/CERisE ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 12:06:00 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: (forw) Re: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921185240.GJ30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020921185240.GJ30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020921190600.GK30391@linuxmafia.com> Phil White wrote: > Considering that every one on this list has tried a distro that they > didn't like and move on (and I suspect _started_ with that distro...), > I think it's fair to say that your approach which has worked _ever_ so > well for you doesn't work very well for the people you're trying to > help. Non-sequitur. > When messing with someone else's hardware, it's often better to think > of them and not yourself. It's the business of the _other guy_ to think of himself. Your goal might be to be benevolent, but you're most often kidding yourself if you think you know what the other guy will be happiest with. And frankly, it's rather high-handed of you to think you can and should tell other people what's good for them. > But that's aside from the point. Users have difficulty making independent, > intelligent choices about stuff they know little to nothing about. > They worry about breaking their system. Yes, they do. The only cure for that is to encourage them to deliberately blow the system away and re-do it -- or try a different distribution at that time, if they wish to. How _else_ would they ever learn to not worry about breaking the system? > They brought it to you because you are a (self-proclaimed) expert who > can make their computer cooler. Speak for yourself: Sounds a bit egotistical, to me. All I tell them is that I can help them through rough spots on their choice of a couple of dozen Linux and *BSD distributions, and have installable files for all of them, for their convenience. > In most cases, they'd really like nothing more than to leave their > computer there, come back in a couple of hours, and have it do _cool_ > stuff like burn CDs, play mp3s, play games, and give them all the > stuff they need for their schoolwork. I'd like world peace. What's your point? > Part of making their computer cool is their observations of installing > Linux on their system. Linux is a lot less cool if someone has to > hack around for most of the day to get X going. I'm sorry to hear about your problems with X. Maybe you should attend some CABAL or SVLUG installfests, to learn how to do it. > I want to make Linux cool for people. Then, shut up and code. All this "Let's decide what's good for everyone else" rhetoric is really obnoxious, not to mention a waste of time. -- Cheers, "That article and its poster have been cancelled." Rick Moen -- David B. O'Donnel, sysadmin for America Online rick@linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 12:21:11 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <20020920094811.A20309@synapse.neuralscape.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > It's actually not a problem with the list, it's a problem with DNS. > I've tried to fix it by setting up the MTA but have failed. The > problem is as follows. The machine's real name is > hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. That was the name before the sluglug stuff was > moved and it's part of cse. Now, sluglug.ucsc.edu is a CNAME to > hermosa. That means that MTAs will look for sluglugs MX record, get > the CNAME response back, query again for hermosa's MX record, which > will correspod to hermosa itself. This means that most mail comming in > comes to hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. You can't[1] MX to a CNAME: It's against the RFC. Therefore, change that CNAME to a second A record. That's one problem, right there. I don't really know Postfix. With reasonable luck, you can configure that part for yourself. [1] Some MTAs _will_ consider CNAMES as valid SMTP hostnames, but they're not supposed to. Sounds like Postfix balked at your setup, which means it's RFC-compliant in that regard. -- Cheers, "The front line of defense against such sophisticated Rick Moen viruses is a continually evolving computer operating rick@linuxmafia.com system that attracts the efforts of eager software developers." -- Bill Gates From isolis at igso.net Sat Sep 21 13:09:45 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) said: > Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > > > It's actually not a problem with the list, it's a problem with DNS. > > I've tried to fix it by setting up the MTA but have failed. The > > problem is as follows. The machine's real name is > > hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. That was the name before the sluglug stuff was > > moved and it's part of cse. Now, sluglug.ucsc.edu is a CNAME to > > hermosa. That means that MTAs will look for sluglugs MX record, get > > the CNAME response back, query again for hermosa's MX record, which > > will correspod to hermosa itself. This means that most mail comming in > > comes to hermosa.cse.ucsc.edu. > > You can't[1] MX to a CNAME: It's against the RFC. Therefore, change that > CNAME to a second A record. That's one problem, right there. Yeah, I know, that's what I said. It's just I don't control DNSs and I was dealing with two separate departments at the time it wasn't my priority. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020921/ecd19bbc/attachment.pgp From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 13:19:58 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020921201958.GO30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > Yeah, I know, that's what I said. It's just I don't control DNSs and I > was dealing with two separate departments at the time it wasn't my > priority. Looking up sluglug.org's whois entry: Organization: UCSC Linux Users Group Alvin Wong 2613 Carlo Scimeca Dr. San Jose, CA 95132 US Phone: (408)259-8630 Email: vade12@yahoo.com Administrative Contact: UCSC Linux Users Group Alvin Wong P.O. Box 33013 San Jose, CA 95152 US Phone: (408)259-8630 Email: vade12@yahoo.com Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Register.Com Domain Registrar 575 8th Avenue - 11th Floor New York, NY 10018 US Phone: 902-749-2701 Fax..: 902-749-5429 Email: domain-registrar@register.com Alvin Wong owns the domain ("Registrant"), and is also technical contact. Register.com's NOC is Technical Contact. Fixing DNS is going to involve one of those folk, I imagine. If SlugLUG doesn't control it's DNS, any more, I imagine that's a top-priority matter to fix. From isolis at igso.net Sat Sep 21 13:31:52 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921201958.GO30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020919011241.GA5732@deeptht.armory.com> <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921201958.GO30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020921203152.GB70153@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) said: > Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > > > Yeah, I know, that's what I said. It's just I don't control DNSs and I > > was dealing with two separate departments at the time it wasn't my > > priority. > > Alvin Wong owns the domain ("Registrant"), and is also technical > contact. Register.com's NOC is Technical Contact. Fixing DNS is going > to involve one of those folk, I imagine. > > If SlugLUG doesn't control it's DNS, any more, I imagine that's a > top-priority matter to fix. I was talking about sluglug.ucsc.edu, which is part of ucsc.edu. I know Alvin, I haven't talked to him yet. sluglug.org is not my priority because I consider this group to be based on UCSC and sluglug.ucsc.edu is what I view as the permanent address. I will ask them to change that and give us an A record and our own MX record when I can. The thing is, the last time I checked, they really weren't too keen into giving 2 A records for the same IP because of reverse lookups. Maybe I missunderstood, so since I have to ask again what the deal is and coordinate 2 DNS departments (ucsc and cse), I've left this matter for later. For now, people seem to be posting to the list just fine. And the mirrors seem working fine. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020921/25dffe6e/attachment.pgp From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 14:42:06 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921203152.GB70153@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <200209200246.g8K2kht9019901@newbolt.sonic.net> <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921201958.GO30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921203152.GB70153@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020921214206.GP30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): [ucsc.edu-based hostname:] > I will ask them to change that and give us an A record and our own MX > record when I can. The thing is, the last time I checked, they really > weren't too keen into giving 2 A records for the same IP because of > reverse lookups. That's not a valid objection. Yes, you can reverse to only one A record. No, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have multiple A records. (Ideally, the PTR entry should resolve to the FQDN of SlugLUG's choosing.) > For now, people seem to be posting to the list just fine. Then, someone should fix the address indicated on the Web page. -- Cheers, Live Faust, die Jung. Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com From mlist-sluglug at theory.org Sat Sep 21 16:34:13 2002 From: mlist-sluglug at theory.org (Jeremy Avnet) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] List address - was: Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020921214206.GP30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020920205211.GA65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020920210959.GB30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020920214433.GE65868@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921080816.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921102641.GA67238@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921192111.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921200945.GA70115@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921201958.GO30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020921203152.GB70153@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> <20020921214206.GP30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020921233413.GJ11635@in.theory.org> Forward and reverse addresses are handled separately. From ndh at cats.ucsc.edu Sat Sep 21 16:46:05 2002 From: ndh at cats.ucsc.edu (Nico Hailey) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. Message-ID: Hi, with all this meta-discussion going on, well, i thought i'd jump right in. I've been on campus for three quarters now, and there are a few things about sluglug i've noticed. Or, more to the point, _haven't noticed_...like when the meetings are. The average SOE undergrad critter is entirely unaware of the fabulousness awaiting at a UCSC LUG. So more visibility would be nice. Last quarter, i didn't even find out about the install fest until one of the campus rags reported on it. also, it does seem a bit odd to have an IRC channel listed on the webpage, and have no one be sitting on it, or even a bot(chanserv doesn't count), if someone wanders by -- also AFAIK no IRC clients are on cats machines undergrads can use. ex:I have read this list and webpage, and still don't know when the next meeting is. Is it the last thursday of the month near the white boards? or is it wednesday oct 2 7pm? or is it neither of these as someone can't go? It really doesn't seem to matter what distro's ppl have at an install fest. It matters more about getting the word out and and not freaking out the newbies with dorky nrrd religious stuph. I mean, my first free *nix was freeBSD, and i was blissfully ignorant of all the religious implications until a good year into it. The main point is set a date (sooner the better, install fests around midterms or finals suck), plaster the campus with dead trees esp BE10[59] and BE152 , see if announements can be made in the large undergrad CE/CS classes (ie, CS101, CE150, CE110, CE100, CS12B, CE12C, etc) and be gentle with the first timers. and also, not to join a mailing list, dis it and then offer no help, i would be willing to go on posterchild duties when fliers are available and otherwise help with the installfest (i'd volunteer to make fliers, but it seems that there are already fliers, and just the date needs to be finalized?) and bring some openBSD cd's to the installfest . and i'll bring some cookies, install fests really ought to have cookies, but since this is santa cruz, only vegan, wheat free, unsweetened cookies, with no nuts. see what you get for pleasing everyone... nico From peterbe at sonic.net Sat Sep 21 18:47:14 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: from "Nico Hailey" at Sep 21, 2002 04:46:05 PM Message-ID: <200209220147.g8M1lFjW021398@newbolt.sonic.net> Hi - Good observations below! My 2 cents regarding meeting time: I was planning on publicising this at Cabrillo (mainly amongst people taking Linux classes) as soon as a meeting time was established, but most of the classes are in the evening mid-week: http://www.cabrillo.cc.ca.us/schedule/fall/cis.html I, in particular, am taking a Wednesday night class - the Linux network admin class. So I vote especially against Wednesday and also against Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Not much point in publicising the meeting there if 1/2 the people can't go ... more below ... > > Hi, > > with all this meta-discussion going on, well, i thought i'd jump right > in. I've been on campus for three quarters now, and there are a few > things about sluglug i've noticed. Or, more to the point, _haven't > noticed_...like when the meetings are. The average SOE undergrad Not too many and announced at the last minute? > critter is entirely unaware of the fabulousness awaiting at a UCSC > LUG. So more visibility would be nice. Last quarter, i didn't even > find out about the install fest until one of the campus rags reported > on it. also, it does seem a bit odd to have an IRC channel listed on > the webpage, and have no one be sitting on it, or even a bot(chanserv > doesn't count), if someone wanders by -- also AFAIK no IRC clients are > on cats machines undergrads can use. > > ex:I have read this list and webpage, and still don't know when the > next meeting is. Is it the last thursday of the month near the white > boards? > > or is it wednesday oct 2 7pm? > > or is it neither of these as someone can't go? > ... one of life's inponderables (so far) ... > > It really doesn't seem to matter what distro's ppl have at an install > fest. It matters more about getting the word out and and not freaking > out the newbies with dorky nrrd religious stuph. I mean, my first free > *nix was freeBSD, and i was blissfully ignorant of all the religious I suppose that will be an eternal aspect to geeks. (Anyhow it will be nice to have another person with bsd experience around. One of my systems is FreeBSD, and there are mysteries to be solved ... ) > implications until a good year into it. The main point is set a date > (sooner the better, install fests around midterms or finals suck), Really ! > plaster the campus with dead trees esp BE10[59] and BE152 , see if > announements can be made in the large undergrad CE/CS classes (ie, > CS101, CE150, CE110, CE100, CS12B, CE12C, etc) and be gentle with the > first timers. Definitely. > > and also, not to join a mailing list, dis it and then offer no help, i > would be willing to go on posterchild duties when fliers are available > and otherwise help with the installfest (i'd volunteer to make fliers, > but it seems that there are already fliers, and just the date needs to > be finalized?) and bring some openBSD cd's to the installfest > . and i'll bring some cookies, install fests really ought to Yeah! OpenBSD! > have cookies, but since this is santa cruz, only vegan, wheat free, > unsweetened cookies, with no nuts. see what you get for pleasing > everyone... Some people actually eat REAL cookies though. 8=) > > nico Peter > > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 19:33:49 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020922023349.GS30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Nico Hailey (ndh@cats.ucsc.edu): > with all this meta-discussion going on, well, i thought i'd jump right > in. I've been on campus for three quarters now, and there are a few > things about sluglug i've noticed. Or, more to the point, _haven't > noticed_...like when the meetings are. SlugLUG's been pretty inconsistent about meeting schedules for the last couple of years. Unfortunately. It's a good idea, if possible, to sit down with a school-year calendar, a copy of /usr/bin/cal, and a Web browser open to http://www.holidayfestival.com/ (to find conflicting holiday dates), and plot out when your meetings can/will be for the next few months. And then _post_ that information where people will look for it. It helps a great deal to have all your public information be consistent, correct, and useful to people not already members of the inevitable in-crowd. http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/essays/newlug.html -- Cheers, A host is a host, from coast to coast. Rick Moen And nobody talks to a host that's close, rick@linuxmafia.com Unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung, or dead. From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Sat Sep 21 19:40:33 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > LUG. So more visibility would be nice. Last quarter, i didn't even > find out about the install fest until one of the campus rags reported > on it. thats very saddening for me, and probably cerise as well. We flyered for i think a grand total of 8 hours, putting up around 200 flyers either on campus or in some random person's hands. Every flat surface (and sometimes curved) surface we could find we attached a flyer to. Not only that, cerise ran up to random people and usually spoke (yelled) loud enough for anyone within a few hundred yards to hear, nearly every chance he had. what college were you at? what areas do you frequent? did you go near baskin engineering that week, or the week prior? i remember there were 3 or 4 flyers at the entrance alone, I think every bulletin board in that building (even the ones that we werent supposed to post on) got a flyer as well. every bus stop had at least one, every 'liberation day' flyer ;) (that we found) was covered up by an installfest flyer. Tantalo announced (supposedly) in his classes about the installfest, I think we asked Mackey as well but i could be wrong. Cerise also wore a flyer on his shirt and announced the installfest to the cynical ce110 class. What should we target this time to reach the people better? Thanks, Andrew/afrayedknot From phig at phig.org Sat Sep 21 22:56:43 2002 From: phig at phig.org (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Good points made. No arguments from me. :) (Now as for Karen's flamebait, I will just leave that in the cylindrical file where it belongs :) On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Nico Hailey wrote: > also, it does seem a bit odd to have an IRC channel listed on > the webpage, and have no one be sitting on it, or even a bot(chanserv > doesn't count), if someone wanders by -- also AFAIK no IRC clients are > on cats machines undergrads can use. I was just going to ask where this news about a SlugLUG IRC channel was, but then I found it. Whenever my laptop is awake (most of the time), I'll be there. I'm working on a useful bot or at least client-with-scripts, more on that if you see it there. I also hang out on/maintain #Smaug on irc.openprojects.net/irc.freenode.net. This is in a similar vein for the townie *UG. As for the availability of IRC clients, I think this is a non-issue. If you are using an OS that installs on some kind of hardware, I bet there is an IRC client you can use. BitchX is available for most OSes, and each OS has its own popular client. - k' < > Karsten Wade < > | karsten@phig.org | "As sharp as the leading | http://phig.org/gpg | edge of a ball bearing." < > http://blog.phig.org < > - Dallas Dobro From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Sep 21 23:54:18 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020922065418.GY30391@linuxmafia.com> As a point of information, there _are_ lots of places where the URL for this LUG is given as http://www.sluglug.org/ . Which currently resolves to an unused IP address. The damage to the group's public presence is left as an exercise for the reader. Unless you guys deliberately _intend_ to get rid of the sluglug.org domain, for some reason, and don't mind creating the impression in some people's minds of the group having vanished. From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 04:42:54 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: <20020922065418.GY30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020922065418.GY30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020922114254.GB71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com) said: > As a point of information, there _are_ lots of places where the URL > for this LUG is given as http://www.sluglug.org/ . Which currently > resolves to an unused IP address. The damage to the group's public > presence is left as an exercise for the reader. > > Unless you guys deliberately _intend_ to get rid of the sluglug.org > domain, for some reason, and don't mind creating the impression in some > people's minds of the group having vanished. I've mailed Alvin, hopefully we'll get a reply soon. I don't know if he keeps up with the LUG any more, his old address at ucsc doesn't work any more. Rick, could you let the people using those addresses what the situation is. If you can't can you tell me so I can contact them. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/9110c33e/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 04:48:48 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting - Installfest dates and suggestions In-Reply-To: <1032565878.13296.15.camel@rasa> References: <1032565878.13296.15.camel@rasa> Message-ID: <20020922114848.GC71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Ok, here are some changes: First Meeting: Date: Tue October 1st, 7pm. Topics: same as before plus - When to hold steady meetings - Making the group more newbie friendly - Cookies for the installfest (Vegan cookies????) Nacho * Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net) said: > Ok, so how'bout: > > First meeting: > Date: Wed October 2, 7pm > Topic: Introduction to Linux (Linux for the Layperson) > - Why am I a newbie? What is a newbie? > - What is Linux? > - What can I do with Linux? > - Why Linux? > - Where can I get Linux? (hint hint, installfest) > - Where can I get help? > (This presentation(s) is not supposed to go into great details, > i.e.vim, emacs, etc) > > Advanced Topic: ?? > > Other: Lay out installfest plan, group direction (seems ok), > future meeting suggestions. Key signing party planning. > > Installfest: > Sat October 12, 1pm > > Distros? > Getting network ports? > Bringing cables, monitors, keybs, mouse, etc. > > Last installfest was pretty good so I'll let the install-master take > over. Maybe we can get an add in one of the weekly papers... > > > Nacho > > -- > "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/260c3220/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 05:26:35 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020922122635.GE71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Nico Hailey (ndh@cats.ucsc.edu) said: > with all this meta-discussion going on, well, i thought i'd jump right > in. I've been on campus for three quarters now, and there are a few > things about sluglug i've noticed. Or, more to the point, _haven't > noticed_...like when the meetings are. The sluglug meetings haven't been very periodic. Sluglug is a (very) loosly organized group of people and so far has had no "reign" or real governing body, so the meetings have sprung up from the chaos within. Ben was the moving head before, he left things to Aaron who was kind of busy. Phil picked up some steam this year and I've taken over server stuff. But in short, yes, we need better organization. Maybe we can get regular meetings organized on our first meeting. > Last quarter, i didn't even find out about the install fest until one > of the campus rags reported on it. Actualy, that installfest was very well publicized, I thought flyers where everywhere. > also, it does seem a bit odd to have an IRC channel listed on the > webpage, and have no one be sitting on it, or even a bot(chanserv > doesn't count), if someone wanders by -- also AFAIK no IRC clients are > on cats machines undergrads can use. Hmm, I don't know about the availability of irc software for cats or cse. I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the didn't have it. I'll see if we can get anything going. I created the #sluglug channel so people could chat there if they wanted to. I hang out there a lot of the time, I haven't seen anybody show up, but it's ok, I've only put the info on the page a little while back. This is one of those things where you don't attract people unless you have people. I'll keep hanging out there, maybe they'll show up sometimes when I'm there. > ex:I have read this list and webpage, and still don't know when the > next meeting is. Is it the last thursday of the month near the white > boards? or is it > wednesday oct 2 7pm? > > or is it neither of these as someone can't go? > Well, we're still a little undecided on that issue, I'm waiting for replies on my last proposal. > and also, not to join a mailing list, dis it and then offer no help, i > would be willing to go on posterchild duties when fliers are available > and otherwise help with the installfest (i'd volunteer to make fliers, > but it seems that there are already fliers, and just the date needs to > be finalized?) and bring some openBSD cd's to the installfest > . and i'll bring some cookies, install fests really ought to > have cookies, but since this is santa cruz, only vegan, wheat free, > unsweetened cookies, with no nuts. see what you get for pleasing > everyone... You're welcome to help with content for the web pages. You're also more than welcome to bring BSD cds to the installfest. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/37b61642/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 05:31:30 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: <200209220147.g8M1lFjW021398@newbolt.sonic.net> References: <200209220147.g8M1lFjW021398@newbolt.sonic.net> Message-ID: <20020922123130.GF71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Peter Belew K6QQG (peterbe@sonic.net) said: > I, in particular, am taking a Wednesday night class - the Linux > network admin class. So I vote especially against Wednesday and > also against Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Not much point in > publicising the meeting there if 1/2 the people can't go ... So no monday, tuesday, wednesday or thursday? So you want the meeting when? Fri / Sat / Sun? > (Anyhow it will be nice to have another person with bsd experience > around. One of my systems is FreeBSD, and there are mysteries to > be solved ... ) We have plenty of BSD experience on the list. More is always welcome. > > have cookies, but since this is santa cruz, only vegan, wheat free, > > unsweetened cookies, with no nuts. see what you get for pleasing > > everyone... > > Some people actually eat REAL cookies though. 8=) I second for real cookies. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/06d59301/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 05:41:12 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020922124112.GG71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> * Karsten Wade (phig@phig.org) said: > > also, it does seem a bit odd to have an IRC channel listed on > > the webpage, and have no one be sitting on it, or even a bot(chanserv > > doesn't count), if someone wanders by -- also AFAIK no IRC clients are > > on cats machines undergrads can use. > > I was just going to ask where this news about a SlugLUG IRC channel was, > but then I found it. > > Whenever my laptop is awake (most of the time), I'll be there. > I'm working on a useful bot or at least client-with-scripts, more on > that if you see it there. I'll be hanging out there with you. > I also hang out on/maintain #Smaug on > irc.openprojects.net/irc.freenode.net. This is in a similar vein for > the townie *UG. So I guess I'll be hanging out there too. > As for the availability of IRC clients, I think this is a non-issue. If > you are using an OS that installs on some kind of hardware, I bet there is > an IRC client you can use. BitchX is available for most OSes, and each OS > has its own popular client. There is a bitchx binary download for SunOS 5.6, which I believe is what CATS (at least teach) runs. I haven't tried that. As we speak I'm compiling the "latest" version but I'm running into ... space ... problems. ... rm rm rm ... make ... make install ... done. I run bitchx ... join #sluglug and what do I find, 4 people. I'll check my ACLs later and make bitchx executable from cats for those who want that access. I'm sure the process can be repeated on cse for those that need a client. Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/30ddf9f9/attachment.pgp From isolis at igso.net Sun Sep 22 05:55:52 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] IRC on CATS Message-ID: <20020922125552.GH71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Ok, I compiled bitchx. I think I gave the correct acl permissions but I'm not sure. People with CATS accounts can try running it: /afs/cats.ucsc.edu/users/y/isolis/irc/bin/BitchX #sluglug @ irc.freenode.net Nacho -- In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are different EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020922/2853eaa8/attachment.pgp From peterbe at sonic.net Sun Sep 22 07:26:08 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Meeting - Installfest dates and suggestions In-Reply-To: <20020922114848.GC71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 22, 2002 04:48:48 AM Message-ID: <200209221426.g8MEQ8Ww005131@newbolt.sonic.net> Can't make that one either. > > > --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Ok, here are some changes: > > First Meeting: > Date: Tue October 1st, 7pm. > Topics: same as before plus > - When to hold steady meetings > - Making the group more newbie friendly > - Cookies for the installfest (Vegan cookies????) > > Nacho > > * Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net) said: > > Ok, so how'bout: > >=20 > > First meeting: > > Date: Wed October 2, 7pm > > Topic: Introduction to Linux (Linux for the Layperson) > > - Why am I a newbie? What is a newbie? > > - What is Linux? > > - What can I do with Linux? > > - Why Linux? > > - Where can I get Linux? (hint hint, installfest) > > - Where can I get help? > > (This presentation(s) is not supposed to go into great details, > > i.e.vim, emacs, etc) > >=20 > > Advanced Topic: ?? > >=20 > > Other: Lay out installfest plan, group direction (seems ok),=20 > > future meeting suggestions. Key signing party planning. > >=20 > > Installfest: > > Sat October 12, 1pm > >=20 > > Distros? > > Getting network ports? > > Bringing cables, monitors, keybs, mouse, etc. > >=20 > > Last installfest was pretty good so I'll let the install-master take = > =20 > > over. Maybe we can get an add in one of the weekly papers... > >=20 > >=20 > > Nacho > >=20 > > --=20 > > "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward > > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg > > > > --=20 > In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice they are diffe= > rent > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg > > --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O > Content-Type: application/pgp-signature > Content-Disposition: inline > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQE9ja4gHMjT3rMeEKsRAs6qAJ9e85zCIYK02KfozrrBXW1KbfYtZACg798B > Raq4cmIwZ5LOjZFpycR1m0Y= > =tPLQ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --pAwQNkOnpTn9IO2O-- > _______________________________________________ > Sluglug maillist - Sluglug@sluglug.ucsc.edu > http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sluglug > -- peterbe@sonic.net From peterbe at sonic.net Sun Sep 22 07:37:55 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: <20020922123130.GF71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 22, 2002 05:31:30 AM Message-ID: <200209221437.g8MEbt2u005545@newbolt.sonic.net> > * Peter Belew K6QQG (peterbe@sonic.net) said: > > I, in particular, am taking a Wednesday night class - the Linux > > network admin class. So I vote especially against Wednesday and > > also against Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Not much point in [I have a Tuesday class myself, and there are other Linux classes at Cabrillo on the other nights] > > publicising the meeting there if 1/2 the people can't go ... > > So no monday, tuesday, wednesday or thursday? So you want the meeting > when? Fri / Sat / Sun? Any of those, but a couple of other regular SlugLug folks and I generally go to the Santa Cruz ham club meetings on the 3rd Friday of each month. Anyhow, as soon as the date is solidified I'll let Cabrillo people know. > > Some people actually eat REAL cookies though. 8=3D) > > I second for real cookies. Yum! > > Nacho Peter -- peterbe@sonic.net From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 11:26:28 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: <20020922114254.GB71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> References: <20020922065418.GY30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020922114254.GB71436@miramar.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <20020922182628.GA30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ignacio Solis (isolis@igso.net): > Rick, could you let the people using those addresses what the situation > is. If you can't can you tell me so I can contact them. 'Course. I've corrected the BALE entry, and will keep an eye out. -- Cheers, "Please return all dogmas to their orthodox positions." Rick Moen -- Brad Johnson, in r.a.sf.w.r-j rick@linuxmafia.com From ndh at cats.ucsc.edu Sun Sep 22 14:16:45 2002 From: ndh at cats.ucsc.edu (Nico Hailey) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] sluglug observations from the non-initiated. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Andrew Stitt wrote: > what college were you at? what areas do you frequent? did you go > near baskin engineering that week, or the week prior? i remember there > were 3 or 4 flyers at the entrance alone, I think every bulletin board in > that building (even the ones that we werent supposed to post on) got a > flyer as well. I was in BE109 all weekends, because I had 12c, and our labs were due sunday night. I also was in BE152 for lecture, I remember seeing flyiers for SWE, and for queergeeks, and for language learning schools and various rooms for rent, motorcycles for sale, small ferrets for homework eating... but it seems as if flyiers get taken down, or people take them if they are interested to remember the event. no one in my socail/class/lab cirlce of SOE transfer students and SOE sophomores seemed to be aware of anything LUGish going on. I am an off campus transfer student myself, nominally at kresge, though i only turn up there to get coffee when the baskin coffee cart is closed (stupid friday afternoons). > every bus stop had at least one, every 'liberation day' flyer ;) (that we > found) was covered up by an installfest flyer. Tantalo announced > (supposedly) in his classes about the installfest, I think we asked Mackey > as well but i could be wrong. Cerise also wore a flyer on his shirt and > announced the installfest to the cynical ce110 class. What should we > target this time to reach the people better? I was in tantalo's ce16 class, and I do not recall him pausing in his relentless drilling of proofs by induction into our thick heads to mention an installfest. some other solutions might be more random "club card" size fliers to be handed out to the classes I mentioned before instead of the general large flyiering on the message boards. The "flyiering boards/bullitin boards" have their own issues in that other people seem to post on top of pre existing flyiers and they are so crowded that it's hard to discern each individual flyier in passing, and you look like a dork studying the board for 20 minutes to parse everything posted. Announcements in classes are also a good idea, if professors are sympathetic. FWIW, i did not mean to attack anyone's efforts last year, you obviously got a number of people to come and did a good job with the event, but there was still a portion of the population missed. This is all i was trying to point out. I have a great deal of respeact for anyone or group managing to put on an event all on volunteer/comunity time. nico From cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com Sun Sep 22 17:45:21 2002 From: cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com (Phil White) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] I love what happens when you're away for a day =) Message-ID: <20020923004521.GA207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> I'll handle any comments. Email directly to cerise@armory.com, not the list. This will presumably expedite things. Ok. Let's set this straight once and for all. 1) I want to recommend using a default distribution for the installfest. This will (presumably) make it easier for us to install. It will remove difficulties from the newbies. It will do lots of things. More about this at the initial meeting. 2) Why on Earth can't the meetings be Friday or Saturday? I went to the K6BJ meeting a couple of nights ago and found a huge amount of interest waiting to be tapped. Sunday is out for Xians and other religious fanatics, M-Th is out for other non-University related people who are interested. Friday and Saturday are free for all represented people. My recommendation is this: Initial oversight meeting! When: Saturday, September 27, 2002 at 7pm What: SlugLUG installfest preparations Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Topics to be discussed: 1) This default distro can of worms. 2) Preparations for the installfest If you have an opinion on the issues, be there. If you don't, be there anyway and enjoy the fireworks! Meeting! When: Saturday, October 5, 2002 at 7pm What: initial instruction for those undergoing the installfest Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Topics to be discussed: 1) Being a newbie in the wonderful world of *nix PS: I will do this talk if no one else volunteers. Email me at cerise@armory.com and I will coordinate. Installfest! When: Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 1pm What: SlugLUG installfest Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Alex is purportedly in Hawaii, so if someone can handle the BELS thing, life will be better for us all. If anyone has spare power cables, monitors, keyboards, mice, &c, it would be appreciated if they come along. Those getting help will be asked to bring as much of their equipment as they'd like guaranteed to work. I'm going to be in touch with Dan again. I'll see if we can't get a rep from City on a Hill as well. I will be flyering. I don't see a flyer up on the SlugLUG website, so I will probably be gimping away this evening. Independent flyering efforts are welcome. Does anyone have access to massive amounts of paper and printer time? This will help the process quite a bit as there's only so much that lex can spit out. On a side note...Does anyone have bullhorns? I love the idea of driving around in my van^Wrolling billboard with people announcing the installfest as we drive along campus. -Phil/CERisE From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 18:16:11 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... Message-ID: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> This wacko appears to have gotten into the habit of replying to list threads with off-list personal flames, and then expecting netiquette to protect him against public embarrassment. Nope, doesn't work. Folks, when/if you have a _legitimate_ reason to take a discussion to private mail, please remove list tags (e.g., "[SlugLUG]") from the subject header and advise your correspondent that you're deliberately going off-list. ----- Forwarded message from Phil White ----- Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:03:22 -0700 From: Phil White To: Rick Moen Subject: Re: (forw) Re: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... It's really rather rude to forward someone else's post without permission. Grow up. On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 12:06:00PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > It's the business of the _other guy_ to think of himself. Your goal > might be to be benevolent, but you're most often kidding yourself if you > think you know what the other guy will be happiest with. And frankly, > it's rather high-handed of you to think you can and should tell other > people what's good for them. Slight correction. It's high-handed of me to _dictate_ what they will be happiest with. It isn't the least bit to make a judgement based on my experience (which, by the way, is open to appeal by _specific_ request from a newbie). > Yes, they do. The only cure for that is to encourage them to > deliberately blow the system away and re-do it -- or try a different > distribution at that time, if they wish to. How _else_ would they ever > learn to not worry about breaking the system? Let's let them do that on their own time, not ours. We don't turn into pumpkins after the fest. We remain a continual source of aid. The mission of an installfest is to give people their initial experience with Linux. Preferably, it involves making it a good one. My intentions are to do just that. > Speak for yourself: Sounds a bit egotistical, to me. All I tell them > is that I can help them through rough spots on their choice of a couple > of dozen Linux and *BSD distributions, and have installable files for > all of them, for their convenience. Well, that's OK. You sound quite a bit out of touch to me. You sound a lot of other things too, but I don't think the obvious is necessary to state. > I'm sorry to hear about your problems with X. Maybe you should attend > some CABAL or SVLUG installfests, to learn how to do it. The joke is that this is an observation made at several installfests. Nice try. Care to play again? > Then, shut up and code. All this "Let's decide what's good for everyone > else" rhetoric is really obnoxious, not to mention a waste of time. You're free to unsubscribe at any time, Rick. I've thought about doing that for you, but I'm not that nasty. Go ahead and storm around your cubicle with a bright red face. I've heard your whole song and dance before about "Why can't everyone just listen to _me_?" which, by the way, is far more high-handed and egotistical than anything I've (and I'll stress this) _suggested_ on the list. As usual, now is an excellent time to note that this is my _final_ post to you on this issue to the list. If you want to whine about it, feel free to do it to cerise@armory.com. Don't waste everyone else's time and patience. -Phil/CERisE ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 18:21:56 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> References: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020923012156.GG30391@linuxmafia.com> Phil White wrote: > Slight correction. It's high-handed of me to _dictate_ what they will be > happiest with. It isn't the least bit to make a judgement based on my > experience (which, by the way, is open to appeal by _specific_ request from > a newbie). Oh, how grand of you to permit such. > Let's let them do that on their own time, not ours. Change subjects much? >> I'm sorry to hear about your problems with X. Maybe you should attend >> some CABAL or SVLUG installfests, to learn how to do it. > > The joke is that this is an observation made at several installfests. > Nice try. Care to play again? Look, X configuration isn't brain surgery, especially in the era of XFree86 version 4,x. I'm sorry to hear it doesn't work for you. Certainly, you're quite right that _you_ shouldn't personally try to assist people with distributions you get tripped up by. -- Cheers, "Reality is not optional." Rick Moen -- Thomas Sowell rick@linuxmafia.com From parkm at cats.ucsc.edu Sun Sep 22 18:11:30 2002 From: parkm at cats.ucsc.edu (Michael Park) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] I love what happens when you're away for a day =) In-Reply-To: <20020923004521.GA207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <20020923004521.GA207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Message-ID: <1032743490.21001.13.camel@parkm.curiousyellow> All these dates seem fine to me. > I'm going to be in touch with Dan again. I'll see if we can't get a rep > from City on a Hill as well. I don't think CHP really cares. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth. I can tell you that Redwood Review will probably show up, since I'm the editor. Though, our next issue isn't until Oct 14th. > Does anyone have access to massive amounts of paper and > printer time? I'm thinking free PDF printouts at McHenry... got me through those bouts of print driver chaos... Michael From graham at calteg.org Sun Sep 22 18:27:40 2002 From: graham at calteg.org (Graham Freeman) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > This wacko appears to have gotten into the habit of replying to list > threads with off-list personal flames, and then expecting netiquette > to protect him against public embarrassment. Nope, doesn't work. Actually, Phil appears to be doing the responsible thing: taking a personal dispute off-list. It'd be nice if you did the same. -Graham From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 18:33:43 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: References: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020923013343.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Graham Freeman (graham@calteg.org): > Actually, Phil appears to be doing the responsible thing: taking a > personal dispute off-list. It'd be nice if you did the same. I _have_ no personal dispute. That other guy seems to have some unilateral obsession with sending verbal abuse. From mlist-sluglug at theory.org Sun Sep 22 19:56:43 2002 From: mlist-sluglug at theory.org (Jeremy Avnet) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: References: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020923025643.GG11635@in.theory.org> * Graham Freeman (graham@calteg.org) said: > Actually, Phil appears to be doing the responsible thing: taking a > personal dispute off-list. It'd be nice if you did the same. I agree. I was going to post as much when Rick forwarded the first personal mail back to this list, but it's always a concern that I might just amplify the noise. Please, keep it off-list. -- jeremy avnet / brainsik .:. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 20:51:16 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923025643.GG11635@in.theory.org> References: <20020923011611.GF30391@linuxmafia.com> <20020923025643.GG11635@in.theory.org> Message-ID: <20020923035116.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jeremy Avnet (mlist-sluglug@theory.org): > I was going to post as much when Rick forwarded the first personal mail > back to this list, but it's always a concern that I might just amplify > the noise. Please, keep it off-list. Nowhere at all sounds a whole lot better, actually. I don't know this person, nor care about him at all. No chance whatsoever I'll get suckered into private-mail debates with him that he attempts to detach from list threads, especially ones where he can't be bothered to remove the list tag or say he's gone offlist for some reason. From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Sun Sep 22 21:28:28 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923013343.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Graham Freeman (graham@calteg.org): > > > Actually, Phil appears to be doing the responsible thing: taking a > > personal dispute off-list. It'd be nice if you did the same. > > I _have_ no personal dispute. That other guy seems to have some > unilateral obsession with sending verbal abuse. > and you have some personal obsession with getting onto our list (and from what ive heard, others) and starting flame wars, and other meaningless threads that provide little or no real help or progress to sluglug (evidence of this is left as an exercise to the reader). From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Sun Sep 22 21:41:05 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923035116.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Jeremy Avnet (mlist-sluglug@theory.org): > > > I was going to post as much when Rick forwarded the first personal mail > > back to this list, but it's always a concern that I might just amplify > > the noise. Please, keep it off-list. > > Nowhere at all sounds a whole lot better, actually. nowhere at all? so why didnt you just delete the message instead of posting it back to the list? oh but wait you wanted an excuse to see yourself post, crap like that is what deturs people from our list. crap like all the other flamage and religious wars that have gone on with _you_ in the center is exactly what we've been trying so hard to keep out of our next installfest. /thanks/ > > I don't know this person, nor care about him at all. and none of us know you either. What are you contributing again? most of what ive read have been comments about how we should go to your installfests, and how you know how to do everything the right way...great, thanks, "shut up and code". > No chance > whatsoever I'll get suckered into private-mail debates with him > that he attempts to detach from list threads, especially ones where he > can't be bothered to remove the list tag or say he's gone offlist for > some reason. how dare he keep the subject intact to help you discern what the message is about. my gosh! like checking the cc list is brain surgery rick! Andrew From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 21:44:07 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: References: <20020923013343.GI30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020923044407.GM30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Andrew Stitt (astitt@cats.ucsc.edu): > and you have some personal obsession with getting onto our list (and from > what ive heard, others) and starting flame wars, and other meaningless > threads that provide little or no real help or progress to sluglug > (evidence of this is left as an exercise to the reader). Ah, my. This is very amusing. And I have no doubt that this exercise in argumentum ad hominem leaves you feeling very virtuous, right? -- Cheers, "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" Rick Moen -- Steven Wright rick@linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Sep 22 21:47:46 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: References: <20020923035116.GL30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020923044746.GN30391@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Andrew Stitt (astitt@cats.ucsc.edu): > nowhere at all? Yep. > so why didnt you just delete the message instead of > posting it back to the list? Well, first, it looked as usual a whole lot like somebody failing to understand how to do list replies. I send such things back as a matter of course. (A post _intentionally_ diverted into private mail should be indicated as such and have the list tag removed from the subject header.) And, of course, I've gotten tired of this wacko figuring he can get away with personal abuse in my private mailbox, when I have no desire to hold one-on-one discussions with him at all. > how dare he keep the subject intact to help you discern what the message > is about. Are you having some difficulty understanding the concept of list tags? From cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com Mon Sep 23 01:13:52 2002 From: cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com (Phil White) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] I love what happens when you're away for a day =) Message-ID: <20020923081352.GA30404@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Ok, so everyone can make these dates? There was a request to push them earlier on account of having a life. I'm not sure if that's possible, but I am willing to ask. -Phil/CERisE/KG6MBQ ------------------------------------------------------- Initial oversight meeting! When: Saturday, September 27, 2002 at 7pm What: SlugLUG installfest preparations Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Pre-Installfest Meeting! When: Saturday, October 5, 2002 at 7pm What: initial instruction for those undergoing the installfest Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Installfest! When: Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 1pm What: SlugLUG installfest Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Mon Sep 23 12:31:52 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923044407.GM30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Andrew Stitt (astitt@cats.ucsc.edu): > > > and you have some personal obsession with getting onto our list (and from > > what ive heard, others) and starting flame wars, and other meaningless > > threads that provide little or no real help or progress to sluglug > > (evidence of this is left as an exercise to the reader). > > Ah, my. This is very amusing. And I have no doubt that this exercise > in argumentum ad hominem leaves you feeling very virtuous, right? ya know, i wonder the same thing about you. > > -- > Cheers, "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" > Rick Moen -- Steven Wright > rick@linuxmafia.com > > > From astitt at cats.ucsc.edu Mon Sep 23 12:40:32 2002 From: astitt at cats.ucsc.edu (Andrew Stitt) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Which reminds me... In-Reply-To: <20020923044746.GN30391@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Andrew Stitt (astitt@cats.ucsc.edu): > > > nowhere at all? > > Yep. back to the list doesnt seem like nowhere at all. and once again, a classic case of rick contradicting himself. > > And, of course, I've gotten tired of this wacko figuring he can get away > with personal abuse in my private mailbox, when I have no desire to hold > one-on-one discussions with him at all. its funny how many of us feel that _you_ are the wacko, who thinks he can get away with playing the innocent little troll at every pass. Sure that works on newbies to the list, but we see through it rick. what _are_ you doing here? how have you helped _at_all_? from my experience on the list, all youve done is start up flames, force everyone to see things your way and your way only. > > > how dare he keep the subject intact to help you discern what the message > > is about. > > Are you having some difficulty understanding the concept of list tags? > no. > > From isolis at igso.net Mon Sep 23 14:35:32 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] I love what happens when you're away for a day =) In-Reply-To: <20020923004521.GA207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> References: <20020923004521.GA207@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Message-ID: <1032816932.5600.2.camel@rasa> On Sun, 2002-09-22 at 17:45, Phil White wrote: > My recommendation is this: > Initial oversight meeting! > When: Saturday, September 27, 2002 at 7pm > What: SlugLUG installfest preparations > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") That's not an official meeting, so it's totally fine. > Meeting! > When: Saturday, October 5, 2002 at 7pm > What: initial instruction for those undergoing the installfest > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") I've talked to some people (including Phil) and we've decided to move it a bit earlier, so it'll be at 6pm. That way if people want to have a life they can. > Installfest! > When: Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 1pm > What: SlugLUG installfest > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") This seems to be a firm date, it hasn't changed so it goes. Nacho -- "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020923/15602174/attachment.pgp From peterbe at sonic.net Mon Sep 23 15:09:40 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] I love what happens when you're away for a day =) In-Reply-To: <1032816932.5600.2.camel@rasa> from "Ignacio Solis" at Sep 23, 2002 02:35:32 PM Message-ID: <200209232209.g8NM9e7C018519@newbolt.sonic.net> Those dates and times seem fine with me! Peter > > > Initial oversight meeting! > > When: Saturday, September 27, 2002 at 7pm > > What: SlugLUG installfest preparations > > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") > Meeting! > > When: Saturday, October 5, 2002 at 6pm > > What: initial instruction for those undergoing the installfest > > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") > > > Installfest! > > When: Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 1pm > > What: SlugLUG installfest > > Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") From cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com Mon Sep 23 15:32:44 2002 From: cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com (Phil White) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] The official times (as will be announced tonight on K6BJ) Message-ID: <20020923223244.GB2126@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Ok. I declare it in stone. One other thing about the first meeting. I intend to bring a test box up and try the installation of Xandros and Lycoris in front of the group. Nacho had one of these in a previous LUG which they called LIRs (Linux Install Runs). While I've come across it independently, I'm happy to steal^W borrow the name. If they're equivalent to Mandrake or so, then I'd like to recommend using either one as a default distribution for people who come without opinions on distros. I'll reiterate for clarity: If someone comes in and says "Hey! Cool! I'd like you to install $DistroX on my system," then we smile and say "No problem, there's a port right over there. Let's get you set up!" If they don't, then we say "Well, we're recommending $DefaultDist for installation. There's a port over there. Let's do this like Brutus!" I'm officially advertising the last two meetings on K6BJ tonight. -Phil/CERisE/KG6MBQ ------------------------------------------------------- Initial oversight meeting, LIR, and decision of the default distro! When: Saturday, September 27, 2002 at 7pm What: SlugLUG installfest preparations Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Pre-Installfest Meeting! When: Saturday, October 5, 2002 at 6pm What: initial instruction for those undergoing the installfest Yours truly will discuss all the nifty things about Linux and why inquiring minds want to exorcise their systems of the evil Redmond monster. Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Installfest! When: Saturday, October 12, 2002 at 1pm What: SlugLUG installfest Where: West lounge in JBE ("Jack's Lounge") Note: We may be _way_ understaffed for this. Last installfest was probably about the right ratio of installers:installees. I anticipate a much worse ratio this time. We need as many trained monkeys^W^Winstall gnomes as we can manage. From dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu Tue Sep 24 12:18:43 2002 From: dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Isacc Walker) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) Message-ID: Anyone interested? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:35:29 -0700 From: Virginia Carrillo To: dwalker@cats.ucsc.edu Subject: host a table (mini-membership drive) Daniel, Welcome back! Before the academic work intensifies too much for some students, it's been suggested that we host an information table and/or mini-membership drive for our SoE student organizations--perhaps one day next week (e.g. Wednesday, October 2nd, 12noon to 1:00pm) in the main lobby. It would offer new students a glimpse of our various student groups or a chance just to meet some student representatives--and to buy their first CyberSlug shirt or souvenir. Does this sound like a good idea for SlugLug too? If your organization doesn't recruit students, it's still a good time to demonstrate the kind of student community and activities that exist here in the School of Engineering and to promote upcoming events. If the idea sounds good to SlugLug, let me know ASAP and I will request a table for your group. We'll need to send out an email announcement and post some flyers too. If the suggested day and time won't work for your group, groups could have a table on another day and time during the week or start an hour earlier or go later than other groups. Thanks, Virginia From peterbe at sonic.net Tue Sep 24 12:46:58 2002 From: peterbe at sonic.net (Peter Belew K6QQG) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Isacc Walker" at Sep 24, 2002 12:18:43 PM Message-ID: <200209241946.g8OJkw35032567@newbolt.sonic.net> Sounds like a great opportunity to recruit and indoctrinate! 8=) > > > Anyone interested? > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:35:29 -0700 > From: Virginia Carrillo > To: dwalker@cats.ucsc.edu > Subject: host a table (mini-membership drive) > > Daniel, > > Welcome back! Before the academic work intensifies too much for some > students, it's been suggested that we host an information table and/or > mini-membership drive for our SoE student organizations--perhaps one day > next week (e.g. Wednesday, October 2nd, 12noon to 1:00pm) in the main > lobby. It would offer new students a glimpse of our various student groups > or a chance just to meet some student representatives--and to buy their first > CyberSlug shirt or souvenir. Does this sound like a good idea for SlugLug > too? -- peterbe@sonic.net From isolis at igso.net Tue Sep 24 13:59:00 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200209241946.g8OJkw35032567@newbolt.sonic.net> References: <200209241946.g8OJkw35032567@newbolt.sonic.net> Message-ID: <1032901141.6619.0.camel@rasa> On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 12:46, Peter Belew K6QQG wrote: > Sounds like a great opportunity to recruit and indoctrinate! > > 8=) > > > > > > Anyone interested? We should definitely set up a table. Nacho -- "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020924/706d008c/attachment.pgp From dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu Tue Sep 24 15:14:17 2002 From: dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Isacc Walker) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1032901141.6619.0.camel@rasa> Message-ID: Ok, So who will volunteer to be there for that hour, October 2 12:00 to 1:00 ? (I can be there.) I assume we will also need flyers, banners, or information of some kind. Anyone want to do that? Daniel Walker On 24 Sep 2002, Ignacio Solis wrote: > On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 12:46, Peter Belew K6QQG wrote: > > Sounds like a great opportunity to recruit and indoctrinate! > > > > 8=) > > > > > > > > > Anyone interested? > > We should definitely set up a table. > > > Nacho > > -- > "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward > EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB > GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg > From isolis at igso.net Tue Sep 24 16:07:41 2002 From: isolis at igso.net (Ignacio Solis) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1032908861.6624.4.camel@rasa> On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 15:14, Daniel Isacc Walker wrote: > Ok, So who will volunteer to be there for that hour, October 2 > 12:00 to 1:00 ? (I can be there.) I can be there. Wed Oct 2, 12-1. > I assume we will also need flyers, banners, or information of some > kind. Anyone want to do that? I think I can get a laptop or two to display the website (and run Linux). I wonder if we'll have connectivity or we need wireless... Nacho -- "In Googlis non est, ergo non est." - Anonymous Coward EEE8 08C9 FBAE B471 9691 CE7A 1CC8 D3DE B31E 10AB GPG Public Key: http://www.igso.net/isolis.gpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/pipermail/sluglug/attachments/20020924/2f166e4b/attachment.pgp From dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu Tue Sep 24 18:04:13 2002 From: dwalker at cats.ucsc.edu (Daniel Isacc Walker) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] host a table (mini-membership drive) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1032908861.6624.4.camel@rasa> Message-ID: On 24 Sep 2002, Ignacio Solis wrote: > > I can be there. Wed Oct 2, 12-1. That's two. I assme Phil and Andrew will be there at 12:20 or so .. Can anyone else be there at 12:00? > > I assume we will also need flyers, banners, or information of some > > kind. Anyone want to do that? > > I think I can get a laptop or two to display the website (and run > Linux). I wonder if we'll have connectivity or we need wireless... I think she said it would be in the baskin front lobby area. I haven't seen any jack around there. Anyone know different? Daniel From phig at phig.org Tue Sep 24 22:11:04 2002 From: phig at phig.org (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] The official times (as will be announced tonight on K6BJ) In-Reply-To: <20020923223244.GB2126@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Phil White wrote: > Initial oversight meeting, LIR, and decision of the default distro! Alas, I am going to skip the oversight/preparations meetings. And, as luck would have it, I am really good at letting go of the how of the process and getting into the what. That means that whatever comes out of those meetings, I will do my best to support. Since I will not be at these meetings, I wanted to take one more opportunity to voice my opinion on the idea of a default distro. I think it's not a good idea or precedent. Basically, I think we should give people the right idea about open source software, and the freedom to choose _and_ to know that you have choices. I honestly think I can speak in real-world terms for people who come in and give them the Right Idea. Knowing that this is flamebait, I hesitated in bringing it up again. However, Phil is pretty adamant on the idea (which is a-ok), but he has gone ahead and put it on the agenda against (I feel) the overwhelming opinion expressed on the list so far. Therefore, I am making my opinion clear. If you care. Heck, I'm not even a UCSC student anymore, and when I was, I was a creative writing geek from Kresge, which is a major that I think dried up and blew away like so much peyote it was created from. :) > Installfest! OTOH, I fully intend to be at the Installfest. I will be a good installer-bee to implement the best installations I can within the scope of whatever, and do it with a smile. I'll also bring lots of equipment and stuff, though I can't promise I will bring a monitor (since my smallest is heavy). cheerio - k' < > Karsten Wade < > | karsten@phig.org | "As sharp as the leading | http://phig.org/gpg | edge of a ball bearing." < > http://blog.phig.org < > - Dallas Dobro From cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com Tue Sep 24 22:44:11 2002 From: cerise at littlegreenmen.armory.com (Phil White) Date: Mon Mar 20 15:51:33 2006 Subject: [SlugLUG] Perhaps a last time will do it? In-Reply-To: References: <20020923223244.GB2126@littlegreenmen.armory.com> Message-ID: <20020925054407.GA22457@littlegreenmen.armory.com> On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 10:11:04PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I think it's not a good idea or precedent. Basically, I think we should > give people the right idea about open source software, and the freedom to > choose _and_ to know that you have choices. I honestly think I can speak > in real-world terms for people who come in and give them the Right Idea. > > Knowing that this is flamebait, I hesitated in bringing it up again. > However, Phil is pretty adamant on the idea (which is a-ok), but he has > gone ahead and put it on the agenda against (I feel) the overwhelming > opinion expressed on the list so far. Therefore, I am making my opinion > clear. Apparently no one's reading the fine print. Let's try this again, with feeling. I am _NOT_ limiting choices; I am limiting confusion and religion from the process. As I envision it: Newbie 1: Hey! I want you guys to install linux! Me: Ok, great! Do you want a specific distro installed? Newbie 1: What's a distro? Me: Ok, great! Let's install the default distribution, xxxxxxx, on there. Alternatively, Newbie 2: Hey! I want you guys to install linux! Me: Ok, great! Do you want a specific distro installed? Newbie 2: I love Slackware. I jump through hoops for it. If I had to save one distribution in the world from being dumped into a pool of sharks with concrete shoes and a straitjacket, it'd be anything _but_ Slackware because Slackware is concrete resistant, more flexible than my last girlfriend, _and_ eats sharks for breakfast! Me: Ok, great! Let's put Slackware on there for ya. Contrast this to the way it used to go. Newbie 3: Hey! I want you guys to install linux! Ian: You should put Debian on there Me: You fool. Slackware is so obviously superior. Ian: I can help you out. I'll put Debian on your machine. Newbie 4: Hey! I want you guys to install linux! Ian: Here's a Debian CD, Phil... Me: Pay no attention to those lame-brains. You want to learn more about Linux right? Slackware is really simple and spartan. It's what I learned on. I think it's really a good decision. Newbie 4: Ummm.... Ian: Oh, c'mon. Don't give him that idiotic distribution which has no package manage- Me: It does. It's called a tarball. Read a book, monkey boy.